What's the most sandbagged climb in Yosemite Valley?

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August West

Trad climber

Where the wind blows strange

Jun 20, 2010 - 01:20pm PT

it's another to knowlingly downplay the dangers and difficulty of a route with the intent to induce climbers to go up and epic, sh#t their pants, or think of the sandbaggers in awed and heroic terms. That's like giving a guy a hit of acid, and telling him it aspirin, which will ease his headache for the long drive home.

LOL

Well put.

bmacd

climber

Relic Hominid

Jun 20, 2010 - 01:22pm PT

Double dog ditto on the DNB. Though I never doubted the assigned grade, just myself the first time I went up there.

Climbing that route was definately one of the greatest achievements of my life. Wish I had a camera up there.

A 5.10 route for 5.11 climbers only

wildone

climber

GHOST TOWN

Jun 20, 2010 - 02:21pm PT

It's hard for me to rate stuff. Partly because I haven't climbed thousands of pitches, partly because of how variable the difficulty of different sized cracks is, and partly because it's, well, hard.
I did a route on Pulpit called You Will Burn in Hell For Your Sins. The guy I was with, who had found the line and showed it to me, and let me have the FA , said 5.9. I thought it was more like .10c, but deferred to his experience. He's climbed forever. Next summer, three different groups of my friends went and did it and said it was more like 10d/11a. So who knows. It's going in the book as a 9+.

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Jun 20, 2010 - 03:20pm PT

Bob wrote

You soloed that thing Karl! Jeez. How did you get down? Climb? Whoa. I did the Good Book in 97.

No way I did that! I had a brain fart and thought you were talking about Braille book!

Recent guides have dropped the sandbag of pitch 3 of the good book, which was a typo I think. Sadly, rockfall has made this route unpopular although you're probably safe if you get to the base in one piece.

I did do Wild Thing on the Folly about 10 years ago, THAT WAS A SANDBAG!

http://www.yosemiteclimber.com/WildThing!.html

Peace

Karl

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Jun 20, 2010 - 04:11pm PT

and S-F

I've looked toward that route from Kor-Beck a few times and can't quite figure the line. Lots of cracks ending in hanging gardens that look like only Tarzan could negotiate. Must be looking at the wrong place

Karl

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Jun 20, 2010 - 04:14pm PT

hanging gardens that look like only Tarzan could negotiate

Well, some of them do fancy themselves as monkeys.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Jun 20, 2010 - 07:21pm PT

Peter,

> Sacherer-Fredericks... I thought that route was highly over-rated, and that it gave up the ghost pretty much after the pseudo-hand traverse

There was a very thin section for us where the crack straightens up, where there was a medium sized plant/bush.
Maybe the plant has overgrown a key hold?
It was a nice looking plant, and we didn't feel like removing it to check.
Maybe it was partly about the pro; might have been faster to protect with pins there.

Peter Haan

Trad climber

San Francisco, CA

Jun 20, 2010 - 08:24pm PT

Clint, that plant must be covering critical stuff as you suspect--- a slot or something. It has been 35 years since I have been on the route. I do remember a short thin section after the pseudo-hand traverse but that it was not hard; this must be the difference.

Roger Breedlove

climber

Cleveland Heights, Ohio

Jun 20, 2010 - 09:00pm PT

Does anyone have a picture of the rock with the route marked? I think that Karl's sense of where the route goes relative to what you can see from the Kor-Beck is off. In May, after talking to Doug about the route, I studied the route through binoculars from near the El Cap Bridge and compared what I saw with the Meyers Reid guide and Roper’s two different guides. What I could see the route moves to the left hand side of the feature on whose right side are all the hanging gardens that Karl mentions. Until I this past May, my sense was the same as Karl’s. The left hand side of the feature is much more inviting.

My goal here is to counter any unwarranted prejudice of the sense of the route. The same goes for the Powell-Reed on the NE face. In May when I sat with Roger Brown in the Cafeteria and he assured me that the bolts on the Powell-Reed would be replaced along with the bolts on Paradise Lost and Stoners Highway.

I think more climbers should venture onto those routes. We had lots of fun on them.

Just to keep this discussion on topic, I considered the Sacherer-Fredericks to be one of the premiere sandbags of the early 70s and stayed off of it. I never knew of anyone actually doing the route until Peter told me about his ascents a few years ago.

CrackAddict

Trad climber

Joshua Tree

Jun 24, 2010 - 09:35pm PT

In the 5.10 range, how about Waverly Wafer, I think that used to be rated 5.10c? Maybe English Breakfast Crack at 5.10c and Meat Grinder at 5.10c? Or Twilight Zone at 5.10c?

In the 5.11 range, how about Anticipation at 5.11b? Or Separate Reality at 5.11d (Kauk once told me he still thought it was 5.12 even after the end quaked off).

In the 5.12 range, maybe Rostrum Roof at 5.12b? Or Hangdog Flyer at 5.12b (one of the pumpiest pure layback pitches in the valley)?

Grades should reflect chance of failure, and although Reed's may have "no moves harder than 5.7" (I disagree with this entirely though!) a 5.10 climber has a very high chance of failure on this route (I know many who have!) therefore I think the rating is a bit of a sandbag. The same with Meat Grinder, etc.

Flanders!

Trad climber

June Lake, CA

Jun 27, 2010 - 08:02pm PT

Not that these are sandbags, just very cool routes: Middle Cathedral Rock has some
incredible routes with very sculpted rock, challenging route finding at times, and a
sporty lead here and there.

Doug

Chief

climber

Jun 28, 2010 - 02:43am PT

Nice post Doug,
Middle is the best example of how numbers can't describe a multi pitch climbing experience. I've flailed and been run out, pumped and scared more times on 5.8 and 5.9 on Middle than anywhere. I wouldn't call it sandbag in general but there are occasions like the third pitch on the DNB that seem a bit stiff for their original grade. (The change in the color of the rock looking down is one of the coolest things about Middle). Ditto for that tombstone of a Sentinel. Not much fluff 5.8 on the Steak Salad. Very manly (or warrior princess/goddess) kind of climbing.

Melissa

Gym climber

berkeley, ca

Aug 10, 2011 - 07:38pm PT

I just found this searching for Sacherer-Fredericks b/c I knew Clint had posted something, but couldn't remember what. I like to look up climbs after I "do" them. I couldn't touch the crux of this even on TR. Slings all the way.

The most sandbagged grade in the valley might 10cLOL.

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber

Joshua Tree

Aug 10, 2011 - 08:11pm PT

Hankster, I once saw Brian Sweeney do Bachar Crachar in flip-flops after I'd baaaaarely gotten up it. My ego was sucessfully crushed for the day.

P1 DNB and the approach to Sacharer Cracker, both 5.7 flares. Both horrendous.

Ahab...10b...hahahahaha!

Ver's Werner - if you're not about 6' or taller this thing is stupid hard for the rating.

P1 of Positively 4th St, rated 5.7 and harder than the 5.9 crux.

Thomas

Trad climber

The Tilted World

Aug 10, 2011 - 09:09pm PT

I would definitely cast a vote for the second pitch of The Enema, but I always struggle with flared stuff. I was way impressed with Donini after doing that one. Great route, and stout!

Cheers!

tolman_paul

Trad climber

Anchorage, AK

Aug 10, 2011 - 09:31pm PT

Two thoughts, first I don't think most climbers intentially sandbag climbs. I think to an extent it is a bit of humility on the part of the FA crew, and then also the fact that they don't have any preconcieved notions of what they can and can't do.

The other thing is that the 5.9 grade is an interesting one. I'd venture to say it is likely the grade that results in more people assuming they can do the route and getting spanked than any other grade. I think psychologically many of us fall into the mindset of 5.10 on up is hard, 5.9 and below is easy. The reality is that even with modern shoes, 5.9 is still stiff climbing, especially if it's a multi pitch route, and requires some strenuous combinations you haven't encountered before.