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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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May 28, 2010 - 04:17am PT
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Port- "These are just a few of the contradictions..."
Luke tells of the local shepherds who were told by angels that they could find the baby Jesus, who was born that night, in a manger. And they went and found Him.
Matthew tells the story about the magi(wise men from the East)who would follow a star and find Him. They found Him and His mother in a house. Most likely some time much later than the shepherds.
Both happened, they chose to focus on different individuals.
They don't contradict each other.
Port- "Why didn't He get His story straight?"
He used Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John to tell the Gospel stories. If He was going to have them tell identical, word for word stories why use four guys?
Mark and John reveal nothing about the birth etc., does that mean that no one visited Him(or they didn't think it happened)?
It's late, I'll look at the others tomorrow.
EDIT: There is a good book called "The Gospels in Stereo" which blends the four Gospels together in chronological order. Nothing contradicting.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 28, 2010 - 04:43am PT
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hey there say... i never post in these usually, as folks have their own roll, and know just how they want to flow...
but i do stop by on occasions, just see how ol' supertopo is doing, all around...
i kind got struck a bit by this, as to humor and co-incidence, as i had just finished WRITING a story in my short story collection for the jake series:
well, jade, she wanted to know what happened down at the river, when the guys at the ranch were fisihing with the mayor...
turned out she got a different story from everyone and got a bit miffed wondering if someone was pulling a fast one on her... (in fun, though, as they are a close knit group)...
turned out each seperate story, actually happened, but just within minutes, after each pair of various mixtures of 2 or 3 of them, (a total of 6 in all) left and the others fishing guys stepped in....
their reports were so obsurd, she just couldnt figure what was going down there, no one had seen or shared anything similar (though none caught any fish)...
wow, i never knew i'd step in here tonight and see a similar discusssion, as to "written gospel books" and in the same vein, of diffent angles being seen, or you know what i mean---kind of, as to my "ranch reporters" for jade, each report true, but different...
oh my... odd that i stepped in to see this...
makes me know that i did a story that folks can identify with though...
...
well, carry on, guys...
take care, and happy supertopo eve to you all...
:)
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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May 28, 2010 - 04:55am PT
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Thanks Neebee!
Wonderful illustration!
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 28, 2010 - 05:24am PT
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hey there say, TripL7.... it so odd, i just happened to step in here, after doing that story...
the title was this:
ANGLING, ANGLES, AND CATCHING FACTS... BUT NOT MUCH FISH
chp 1 = Nice Day
chp 2 = Some Facts Don’t Seem To Make A Lick Of Sense... Until
They Add-Up On Their Own
actually jake and the mayor were down there fishing, just so the mayor could get facts on deafness, and the american sign language..fishing was secondary fun...
so---after they left, others came to fish, and jake even went back three other times, with others of the ranch...
each group was angling for fish, but each group learned new things about ongoing events in their lives, facts, it was, tha they caught (but no fish)...
not one story lined up with the other... and then to top it off, not one folks caught a fish, but the last gal to be there, saw a whole host of fish! ... :))
jade thought they had all been down there together, being that each group had been there with jake... but everyone else shared THEIR story first, and even his repost added to the confusion... :))
yeah, i must have showed up here for a reason, oh my...
what an interesting night... :)
looks like i made you smile...
:)
say, maybe god is smiling too...
:)
edit: say, seeings things from different angles, may complicate things, at times, but it sure does cover all the bases of a full day, and catch details that otherwise might be missed by one...
:O
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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May 28, 2010 - 05:38am PT
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^^^^ So true!!
And i don't believe in coincidence!
Like ol' Ben Franklin said..."The Lord works in mysterious ways!"
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 28, 2010 - 06:48am PT
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hey there TripL7... oh my, me neither (as to conincidences)... though i did make mention of it... :))
i have seen far to often, that they are very special skilled and intricately knitted stiches in the ol' hand sewn quilt of life...
oh my... and i was going to go to sleep EARLY oh my... still up!!!...
nite nite all, and good morning, too...
*just had to see who all the recent poster were, that are still up late, or at least got up, early, first...
:)
have a good day...
:)
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 28, 2010 - 07:35am PT
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hey there say... ooops, was just going to sleep when i realized... as to co-incidences, through... some are meant to be signifigant and some are meant to be simply as to action-reaction and business as usual...
there is so much, as to this word and what it entails, as events do happen as to common measures too, but some stand out far more so, than that, when key situation are at hand, and key needs such as insight, and such need to be met, etc... oh well, i didn't want to neglect saying that, too... very vast, as to the word... but me, i do see the good lord's hand in his higher ways... very interesing, fun, and serious, and gracious, it has been, too, along the way... even the seemingly unimportant, may have vast importance to the helping of another... :)
oh my... well... had to say that...
nite all, again...
:)
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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May 28, 2010 - 08:41am PT
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good to see another ehrman reader, port.
people looking for answers from scholars like him won't find them--they'll just get a much wider picture of the origins of belief.
ehrman's autobiographical notes are interesting. he started out a rather conservative christian young man wanting to dedicate his life to god by becoming as good a scholar of scripture as he could. he went to a rather conservative christian college, learned all he could from them, and then decided to transfer to a slightly less conservative christian college. he went through this process 3-4 times before he got to big, secular universities. each time someone remarked at his farewell get-together, "i wonder if there are any REAL christians where you are going."
probably because ehrman's faith started out so text-oriented, he lost it. he says he just can't see the hand of god in this literary mess they call holy scripture and divine revelation. one of the big problems is copyists. before printing was invented, scripture had to be copied by hand. copyists often took liberties, inserting little extras, spindoctoring things to conform to their beliefs. you can trace these things by studying literary style.
this gives the lie to a lot of people who post here. they're scared to death of losing their faith because it's so tightly tied to written words. a bible quote proves everything. they're crying to think for themselves, but if they do, they're afraid they'll lose everything.
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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May 28, 2010 - 09:12am PT
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lighten up folks. it is a movie made by a comedian to get people to think who crazy religion is, ALL religion..
and yes i loved it. very very funny..
ks
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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May 28, 2010 - 11:38am PT
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What Neebee said ^^^^^^^ so true!
Thanks Neebee!
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Topic Author's Reply - May 28, 2010 - 11:41am PT
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Pate- that "religious authority" picture is religulous! LOL
DMT raises a point I wrestled with constantly and still do (e.g., in regard to my breaks with Abrahamic religion and my first career). The fact is, we're tasked up to our necks in making choices. All the harder when were flying solo. People choose whether to get involved and it is up to them to choose with what and where and how to go about it.
It's a core subject in any "practice of living" model- new or old- and one that is only going to get more complicated in the future.
If only (a) there were only 6 million H. sapiens on the planet (whose core value was sustainability) and (b) there were a SkyMan to tell us what to do and how to do it, there wouldn't be so much argument and the path would be way clearer, and life would be way simpler. Yeah, if only.
See, I knew Port wasn't a scientologist! LOL
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WBraun
climber
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May 28, 2010 - 11:49am PT
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Any religion manufactured by man and that includes your twisted ideas, Corn Nut, is completely defective from the start and will mislead and ruin the very people you are trying to help including you.
History is littered with these nightmares and failures brought on by imperfect experimental knowledge.
Stop trying to play God.
Imitator
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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May 28, 2010 - 11:51am PT
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The movie was on HBO last night.
I have to admit it was pretty entertaining.
He did manage to get a hold of some real pieces of work for his interviews though, not the best sampling of religious folk.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Topic Author's Reply - May 28, 2010 - 11:53am PT
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Brawny- that is you still thinking in the "religious" trap.
Don't you have an LM741 op amp or two you can wirewrap into your aluminum pointy hat. It might empower your mental speculations.
Get off my grass.
Pate wrote-
"I completely understand what you're saying, although I think it is a little bit lame."
People who have made the choice to get involved in a particular problem solving area will see those who haven't as lame. It's human nature and we're tasked to fight it out.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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May 28, 2010 - 11:56am PT
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Ning Hou, beautiful stuff!!
Thanks DMT, you made some excellent points!
Yes, focus is crucial!
"For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
EDIT: From the moment we rise, to the time we go to sleep, life is all about choosing.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Topic Author's Reply - May 28, 2010 - 12:01pm PT
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But did you also see how angry the one guy got? As if he was himself Jehovah's representative on earth. And would be given high marks for it later on (the mythical) Judgment Day. Delusion. Hubris. Condescending. And religulous.
No critiquing religion? "Abrahamic religions get a free pass." This is one custom that's changing lightning quick.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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May 28, 2010 - 12:31pm PT
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What aspect of faith is not narcissistic insofar as faith is the foundation of completely idiosyncratic or personally held beliefs that stand outside of any real ontological certainty and yet the believer holds them to be true?
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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May 28, 2010 - 12:36pm PT
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brotherbbock!
What movie was on HBO last night?
It sounds interesting!
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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May 28, 2010 - 12:48pm PT
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Trip wrote:
brotherbbock!
What movie was on HBO last night?
It sounds interesting!
I assume your joking.....but if your not, it was the movie that this whole thread is about.........Bill Maher's Religulous
EDIT: It was on Showtime......not HBO
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EvolveOrExtinct
Social climber
SinCity
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May 28, 2010 - 01:48pm PT
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The Daily Show is not news???
In my opinion, the best Jon Stewart quote ever...
"I have not moved out of the comedians box into the news box, the news box is movin' towards me."
Any religion manufactured by man and that includes your twisted ideas, Corn Nut, is completely defective from the start and will mislead and ruin the very people you are trying to help including you.
Werner, I hate to break it to you but this includes your Abrahamic religion as well.
EDIT 10:54: So this rhetorical attack on Religulous and our (Pate, HFCS, Myself...) agnostic/atheist diatribes is because you are what? A satanist? Is Alister Crowley your hero? If you drink the blood of trait positive virgin girls will you live forever?
EDIT 11:38: The Daily Show is not news??? /s
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