Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
|
|
Dingus, from your profile picture....uh will "you" PLEASE come to the next climber(s)(ing) event I'm at????? PLEASE! I'll tag along the usual crew of indignant, horney knuckleheads with me, such as Locker, Cosmic, Blitzo, Todd, Bridwell, and anyone else who wants!
Peace
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
|
|
dktem,
No, the toughness of the outfit has no bearing on our rights.
We did serve to protect rights, true.
I didn't know that you served. My apologies.
Survival is absolutely correct.
Whenever we see anyone displaying the American flag, we should assume the worst about their motives and get rid of that thing pronto.
I'm off to my town's war memorial right now. They fly that 'murican flag there 24/7. They don't care if its Cinco de Mayo, St. Patty's day or Kwanza.
Gotta go fix that ignorant display of hate...
My whole spiel though, was about you stating in an earlier post that I somehow felt any display of our colors, including at a memorial was somehow hateful. I never said that at all. These kids that showed up at school with their colors on, it seems to me, did it specifically to provoke those celebrating Cinco De Mayo. Why not let them have a day that they can wave the Mexican flag if they feel like it?
It doesn't mean they're not Americans and have the same rights that we served for.
|
|
Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
Really, Gary? I read a great deal a personal insults and moral approbrium sent bluering's way on this thread, solely because his opinion is not politically a la mode. Where is the same coming from the right?
Why, from mr. bluering.
And certainly, John, you don't believe political correctness to be the sole property of the "left".
|
|
johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
|
|
Technically, anyone without an ID in posesssion can be arrested until identified.
The things presented under the guise of it being correct is astonishing.
|
|
James Doty
Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
|
|
I said technically. It usually doesn't. I also said that it happened to me. So instead of spewing, enlighten me.
|
|
photonez
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
|
|
I think Cinco de Mayo is an American holiday (beer holiday). Most the Mexicans I know are still wondering why this holiday is celebrated.
|
|
James Doty
Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
|
|
I checked it out and you are correct. Only if requested by an officer while driving and you don't have it and they suspect you of a crime. Man, I wish I had known that! But my crime was apparently beig a dick to the cop.
|
|
dktem
Trad climber
Temecula
|
|
survival,
I appreciate your words. And my apologies to you if I went over the line. I often do. My sarcasm often got me into trouble when I was in the army as well...
You're almost certainly correct in assuming that these kids wore the American flag shirts to poke a little jab. The school principal did have to make a tough call. It does seem that freedom of speech debates always often involve people who push the limits of good taste.
But we can't forget that it is equally convenient that the other side chose to be so offended by this expression that it led to a genuine disruption.
If you read some of my posts in other threads, you'll see that I'm mostly left-leaning on a number of issues. I don't agree with a number of US policies, including the current wars. My wife (and children) are minorities, her parents are immigrants, and I often find myself defending the rights of non Christian religions, including Islam. My adopted son was born a Muslim and has a Muslim middle name, just like our President (whom I voted for.)
However I do feel that there is an out-of-control "political correctness" mentality in our culture that is often manifests itself in strange and harmful ways. This story illustrates it perfectly. There is way too much emphasis on supposed victims, and we tolerate too many people who insincerely try to play the victim card. Often it puts white people at a disadvantage solely because of their race -- a bizarre irony, since the supposed intent of this movement is to eliminate discrimination. The definition of fairness is becoming one-sided.
The principal who made the decision to punish these kids had to consider a number of factors, and it was certainly not an easy call to make. But it is disappointing that the mentality of one-sided fairness -- the "minority" is always the victim -- prevailed over our most basic right to express loyalty to the very country that protects these rights.
Dave
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 07:06pm PT
|
dktem, that's probably how I should have started this thread. I get a little 'colorful' sometimes.
Nice post, I couldn't have said it better!
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
|
|
Great post Dave.
Tip of the hat.
|
|
Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
//However I do feel that there is an out-of-control "political correctness" mentality in our culture that is often manifests itself in strange and harmful ways. This story illustrates it perfectly. There is way too much emphasis on supposed victims, and we tolerate too many people who insincerely try to play the victim card. Often it puts white people at a disadvantage solely because of their race -- a bizarre irony, since the supposed intent of this movement is to eliminate discrimination. The definition of fairness is becoming one-sided.
The principal who made the decision to punish these kids had to consider a number of factors, and it was certainly not an easy call to make. But it is disappointing that the mentality of one-sided fairness -- the "minority" is always the victim -- prevailed over our most basic right to express loyalty to the very country that protects these rights.//
I thought this was pretty well stated but I feel I need to comment. This may be one of the "factors" you mention, maybe not. The principals' decision appears to be based on a desire to avoid a conflict and maybe some headbusting between minors', who he or she has a duty to protect while they're at school, vs. allowing them full expression of their 1st Amendment rights. High schools students/minors have a lower of protection than us adults do. Schools can search their lockers, limit what kinds of speech and activity they can have on campus. It's just part of being a teen.
However, since I haven't read thru all the posts, I'm not sure if anyone asked why these God fearin' Americuh loving' kids all decided to wear American flags on Cinco de Mayo. What was the ethnic makeup of the kids wearing the flag? Was it to show their love of country? or was it to show their that they belong more than kids who's parents immigrated from the south or than kids who emigrated during their own lifetime?
I say this as someone who's part white/part Latino, but there is a definite faction is white society that holds the belief that they belong and we do not. My dad worked with a couple of guys who expressed this perspective often. One was big white guy from Texas, who would always tell his Japanese American co-worker, "America for Americans." One day it was finally revealed that white Texas guy was only second generation and Japanese American guy was fifth. Still, white Texas guy clung to his A for A attitude. Was he racist or a flag waver? How about these suspended kids? Given the timing of their sudden burst of patriotism, how would we characterize them? Given their age, I'd just say they're young and maybe not so smart. If they were adults, I'd probaby be less willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
An Educator would have taken advantage of the situation to present a "Teachable Moment". Sounds like a lesson in tolerance was in order.
Too bad that Principal wasn't an Educator.
|
|
AllezAllez510
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
|
|
"However, since I haven't read thru all the posts, I'm not sure if anyone asked why these God fearin' Americuh loving' kids all decided to wear American flags on Cinco de Mayo. What was the ethnic makeup of the kids wearing the flag? Was it to show their love of country? or was it to show their that they belong more than kids who's parents immigrated from the south or than kids who emigrated during their own lifetime?"
Two of the kids were Latino with Spanish surnames.
I don't understand the big deal. The district came out publicly saying the VP's actions were wrong. He was reprimanded, as he should have been. What's the big deal?
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
Wow! A great many excellent posts in this set. It's amazing how that happens when we quit villifying and insulting each other.
John
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
Maybe after Arizona's actions Mexicans feel like it's all the more important to be visible this year. Hell, can't wait to see latino voting patterns in the fall. Lots of them tend to be conservative, but could see some blowback on the republicans this fall. That's the problem with the immigration issue for the republicans - lot of gambling for them in the issue.
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
Mexicans are the same race as you, me, and Bluering.
|
|
AllezAllez510
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
|
|
"And the vast majority never face any significant danger so where is the heroism?"
Define 'heroism'?
The amount of money that goes into the military in this country is a personal pet peeve of mine, but questioning the 'heroism' of any service member is asking for it...
...but, I'm biased...I have a cousin in Iraq and a father(!) in Afghanistan.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2010 - 01:22am PT
|
I am offended by your remarks and I think you could have been a little hammered when you made them. You might want to say a big Lo Siento to the Mexican people on this thread.
As a matter of fact I was drinkin'...But to say that I owe some kind of apology to Mexican-heritaged people is un-called for.
I never meant to insult Mexicans. This thread was supposed to be about 5 kids who had to hide their shirt flags. Or go home!
|
|
Delhi Dog
Trad climber
Good Question...
|
|
"I never meant to insult Mexicans. This thread was supposed to be about 5 kids who had to hide their shirt flags. Or go home!"
Well then you blew it.
But, what the heck, some interesting thoughts sprung up.
Too bad it was at others' expense...maybe an apology?
Cheers,
DD
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2010 - 01:34am PT
|
How does a few kids wearing Uhmerikuhnt flag shirts make you want to say "F*#k you Mexicans"?
I thought I already stated why.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!