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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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May 25, 2010 - 02:26am PT
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Christ, Riley. Relax!
If you had said the same thing about President Obama, you'd be locked up. And for good reason, too.
( Obama's not exactly blameless here, either )
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 25, 2010 - 04:46am PT
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This Spill may screw up the gulf coast and maybe even florida too, maybe even some of the East Coast and the rest of the ocean too. It's hard to imagine a disaster screwing up more of America than this one.
Still, we're going to wind up drilling more offshore and drilling the arctic too. Gas is going to start costing $8+ a gallon after some time and everyone will just insist on a bit safer plan (which might still fail)
Why? cause we're addicted in a way that doesn't go away easy and oil is approaching a peak....Fast
Even if we conserved a lot, and tripled our commitment to alternative energy, it would only buy us some time. It is going to take a radical shift and our public consciousness isn't there yet. Obama knows about peak oil but isn't ready to screw up the financial markets and economy by announcing just how hosed we are, that's why he was willing to entertain more drilling in the first place.
I don't like that this is the case, but that's the way it is.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/howie-klein/another-wake-up-call-for_b_566301.html
Everybody should read the first couple of pages of this
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
Peace
Karl
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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May 25, 2010 - 09:19am PT
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Karl, as usual I agree with you. But I try to remember that there was a time when we were just as addicted to whale oil and charcoal and wheel wrights were in big demand. See the future, pour some real money into alternative renewable energies and change can happen quite fast.
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Jingy
Social climber
Nowhere
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May 25, 2010 - 03:48pm PT
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Is there any question that the multi-billion $ corporation had no plan "B" in place for just this type of incident?
You'd think that a corporation, with all it's research into becoming "Green" (if you believe a word of their drivel in the commercials?) would have this covered fromthe moment it blew up, to fully cleaned/resolved within a few days.....
Oh, but not this multi-billion $ corporation...
and you know what?
They are still sitting on their hands...
makes me sick.. this will make plenty of people sick by the time it is capped.. and who knows... maybe we can evolve to eating crude for breakfast... that will solve the problems...
P.S. Edit: Better save all those photos on your personal hard-drive.. I'd expect BP to want to remove all record that this even even took place.. and the public will just forget it ever happened...
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 25, 2010 - 09:34pm PT
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Tuesday, May 25, 2010
The most unloved heroes in America
By TigerHawk at 5/25/2010 06:10:00 AM
Oil continues to pour out of a hole in the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico, and BP Plc is the latest corporate villain by dint of its ownership of the hole and its failure to plug it after more than a month of trying. Whether the company survives the disaster probably depends on whether it stops the oil before hurricane season gets in to full swing. Regardless, the executives and employees of BP are under siege, just trying to survive the present and worrying whether they have any future.
There will be time to sort out culpability in some imperfect political or prosecutorial process. We will blame some of the right people, but it is a lot more probable than not that we will also blame some of the wrong people and omit to blame at least some person or institution that will escape the gauntlet of hearings and depositions. That spectacle will come as night follows day.
In the last few days, however, I've been thinking about other people, the nameless men and women who will actually remediate this disaster.
Somewhere within BP true heroes are working night and day to stop the gusher and clean up its consequences. These people -- everybody from petroleum engineers to the rough men and women who work in oil fields in the world's most challenging environments to the machinists and welders who labor around the clock to build the next solution -- are not, in the main, responsible for the disaster. They are responsible for ending it. They are not known to us as individuals. In the current climate, where liberal activists intimidate the families of corporate executives to gain leverage, they no doubt hope to remain anonymous. They are working around the clock, to the point of exhaustion, in conditions, both physical and emotional, more stressful than most American employees (including many who complain about all the stress they are under) can possibly comprehend. They will eventually solve this problem they did not create. At the moment of their success, which no doubt will come, these men and women will have prevented staggering incremental damage. Their only reward, though, will be relief and the satisfaction of a job well done.
I respectfully submit that the anonymous employees of BP and its contractors who are devoting themselves to plugging the hole and cleaning up the oil are, perhaps, the most heroic people in America right now. I'm one American who is grateful for you, and wish you the strength and wisdom to finish the daunting task before you.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 25, 2010 - 10:00pm PT
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Philo wrote
Karl, as usual I agree with you. But I try to remember that there was a time when we were just as addicted to whale oil and charcoal and wheel wrights were in big demand. See the future, pour some real money into alternative renewable energies and change can happen quite fast.
The world wasn't using 120 million barrels a day of Whale oil. There are NO alternative renewable energies that can remotely replace oil on even half the scale we use it..not yet anyway, and it would take trillions and much energy (running low) to do so.
So the change can't happen fast enough, we're going to get caught short, barring a miracle (Klimmer's aliens or something)
Read the two pages of the link
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
It reveals why free-market faith and a little conservation/alternative fuel won't be enough to save us. We might avoid a total FUBAR if we get super motivated right now, but nobody wants to sound the alarm hard enough cause it would crash the markets to come to terms with reality
PEace
Karl
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MisterE
Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
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Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2010 - 10:01pm PT
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Thanks for the reminder of those doing the hard work, TGT.
I still am having trouble wrapping my brain around this stupendous folly and the kind of mentality that throws the health of our oceans away with such reckless, selfish abandon.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 25, 2010 - 11:06pm PT
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I still am having trouble wrapping my brain around this stupendous folly and the kind of mentality that throws the health of our oceans away with such reckless, selfish abandon.
The same kind of folly that allows a space shuttle engine to be built with O rings that don't work below a certain temperature and a management structure that allowed the shuttle to be launched outside those parameters.
We will learn and it will never happen again!
But, we will never eliminate human failing, and folly in a new and novel set of circumstances.
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The Alpine
Big Wall climber
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May 25, 2010 - 11:54pm PT
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The thing that gets me is why they didnt try to cap or seal or "top-kill" the well immediately.
All first attempts were based around collecting the oil.
Aka - making money.
We're only NOW trying to actually stop it. Thats fukking criminal right there.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 26, 2010 - 12:23am PT
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Once a significant portion of the continental US coastline is badly fouled, people won't soon forget. The suffering from this has just begun.
Let's hope we get wise reactions instead of knee-jerk posing
Peace
Karl
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MisterE
Social climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2010 - 12:08am PT
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Today's up-date. Looks like they finally sucked it up and are going for the top-kill. Gee, that only took a POLLUTING NIGHTMARE to finally make the hard choice of no future dollars from this well. Boy, that must have been a tough decision, and only a few hundred thousand gallons of oil into our oceans later.
http://www.mercurynews.com/politics-government/ci_15169262
Now, what about that 16-hole drill rig that was reportedly in worse shape than the one that failed? Are we going to allow the possibility of some catastrophe 16X the one we just saw?
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MeatBomb
Gym climber
Boise, I dee Hoe
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May 27, 2010 - 12:58am PT
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^^^^
listen up ya'll, the dumbass is speaking.
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MeatBomb
Gym climber
Boise, I dee Hoe
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May 27, 2010 - 01:10am PT
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I'm yawning over here windbag.
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Jingy
Social climber
Nowhere
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May 28, 2010 - 12:10am PT
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death to the corporate swine...
still making me sick.... er!
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willie!!!!!
Trad climber
99827
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May 28, 2010 - 04:30am PT
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Word, Radical.
I'm trying to stick to my new plan of being good and happy while getting my kicks in cause noone cares, but...
This sh#t is heavy. And major.
Look what we did.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 28, 2010 - 04:52am PT
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hey there all, say, since you all have all the other subjects covered on this... i just had a question:
i think my question is a geography type thing... i think i asked the same question in the thread, unless i have mixed these up...
but say, does anyone know what happens deep within the earth where all this oil is suddenly blasting out from...
i mean, is there going to be a void there and then will rock shelves cave in etc... or shift, due to substance being lost????
would this cause more earthquakes, since is such a severe never ending gush, or not?
if so, there may be other disasters now looming that folks have not dared to think on, yet...
does any of you folks that study this stuff have any ideas on this...
just curious....
i mean, its coming from somewhere, and
somewhere is NOT going to be the same...
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 28, 2010 - 05:30am PT
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hey there radical riley... i knew, as to south texas... it used to be my home that i loved... and all the bird sanctuaries... :(
very sad, yes, my grandkids are there to grow up in that mess, as well as see all the wonderful animal life die... :(
thanks for the south texas share...
so very happy to hear from you, even with these sad topics going on...
god bless, take care, and keep on being a wonderful dad,
and helper to mankind...
:)
wow, we're up later... haha, or early, depending...
;)
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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May 28, 2010 - 11:26am PT
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It's too big to sweep under the carpet. Just keeps oozing back out, getting stickier on the Senators shoes. Makes it harder for them to reach for their kickbacks. Slimes up the nice Persian carpets, gift of their Arab buddies.
This is helping to change things faster than even $4.00 gas did.
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