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fresh pow
Gym climber
Plastic Paradise
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It's weird but I have been thinking about suicide a lot lately. I have not been to the ST forum for awhile but I came to look today and I was really hoping to see a thread about suicide and here it is. For me, suicide hit home last month and I thought, WTF? Why not go climb that big alpine peak I've always wanted to climb? What do I have lose if I take a greater risk than I normally would in the mountains? That is what the sadness and depression of losing my wife made me think of. That is the risk the OP was talking about. Suicide is not intellectual. It is devastation.
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fresh pow
Gym climber
Plastic Paradise
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Yes, take it slowly. I am learning how to be a survivor of suicide and am just looking for insight on how to deal with this issue. Thanks Jim.
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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I am just a bit surprised how this thread so quickly degenerated into who is and is not scientific. What is and what is not. Really?
WTF
Suicide is serious and some of the posts here are what help push people away and into deeper water. A bunch of back and forth and a bunch of hyperbole.
If you can speak from experience feel fee to step up and relate, if not perhaps just sit down.
I have seen some dark regions of whatever and really have no idea why I am still here but for whatever reason it played out. There were times when I literally was just putting one foot in front of the other with no idea of the out come. Part of that can be the problem. Read a good saying on a wall once. Without Vision Man Dies. The rest is, well, the rest. Latch onto something and go for it. See where it takes you, if you do not feel better at the end, do it again.
Here's to sweat in your eye
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John M
climber
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this has been one of the hardest years of my life.
I would delete my posts, but HFCS posts would still be there. Edited as HFCS has edited out his posts.. I am sorry about the vitriol.
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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I hear you. The last year or two have been a challenge. Towards the end of last year I lost it a bit at work going back and forth with a co-worker who was really pushing my buttons and a boss that had no idea what my job entailed. Other stuff as well. I realized I just had to step away. Some stuff is not looking the way I want but I am more at peace.
Step back, relax and find a smoother way. Sometimes relief comes from strange angles.
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LilaBiene
Trad climber
Technically...the spawning grounds of Yosemite
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This is the first time I've seen this thread, and it contains a lot of thought-provoking and very thoughtful, well-considered insights. I'm grateful to everyone for the contributions, especially those that provided me with opportunities to really think. (I'm still looping on the karma idea because I had such a knee-jerk reaction to it -- means I need to spend some time there. Not intended to be a bad pun.)
I'd be a liar to say that what happened this past week didn't shake me up. I've written elsewhere about my own demons, as well as trying to come to terms with learning after 40+ years on this planet that my birth dad probably struggled with similar foes, only to lose. I think what eviscerates me is understanding those moments when you feel like you are trapped, being held under water, and you just don't know what else to do to make the pain STOP. To learn about vibrant, energetic, positive forces of nature succumbing to this point of abject misery is so difficult to accept as reality.
I've spent the last several months intensively studying the genetics of imbalances in body chemistries and cycles, and if there's one thing it's solidified for me, it's that no one really understands how the human body really works. Experimenting with food elimination and the addition of various vitamins, amino acids, healthy fats, etc. has taught me that (at least in my own experience) there is something very, very wrong with the way emotional health is addressed both by the medical profession and by the population at large.
The brain isn't a separate entity that just sits atop your frame, manufacturing or not manufacturing the "right" neurotransmitters, etc. It is integrated with every other system, cycle, function, etc. in your body. If something goes wrong in your cardiovascular system, or your liver's enzymatic production or detoxification systems, or your digestive system (or any number of other systems), odds are, it's going to impact your emotional health long before you even have an inkling.
Individuals that suffer from depression do not choose to feel this way. It is not a weakness. If anything, the folks that I've encountered that have also experienced chronic depression are strong as they are tough and resilient. Medications do not work for everyone, and it's frustrating when doctors and people on the street suggest that you just haven't found the right one. We have a whole litany of healthy (focusing on the positive here) coping mechanisms -- they're our very survival.
So I didn't intend to get up on my soapbox. What I really wanted to say is that this thread helped me a great deal; especially in focusing my thoughts on how and why things need to change, and how urgently imperative it is that the "stigma" be eradicated. Unless and until it's greatly reduced, millions of people will continue to suffer in silence, alienated...from help, from loved ones, and in the worse cases, life.
In response to the OP, IMHO, the climbing community is more willing to speak openly about things the rest of the world prefers to just sweep under a rug. Statistically, I'd be willing to bet that there are far more suicides that go unreported as such, simply due to the stigma attached. In my mind, these factors would lead me to believe that there are actually far fewer suicides among climbers as compared to the general population. But that's just my own humble opinion.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Thanks Lilabiene
I think you are on the right path.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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given we tolerate and underline a social structure which gives them every reason to play and pretend as is well
Speak for urself
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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LilaBiene,
Thanks for your thoughtful contribution. Climbers are so self reliant and I see them often refusing any assistance when it comes to these kinds of challenges. Self rescue with the more severe cases of mental illness has only one option for those suffering, unfortunately choosing the ultimate relief from life and leaving a hole in the hearts of those that loved them. Feel the strength from all who know you holding the rope that bonds, best to you in your journey.
Charlie D.
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scooter
climber
fist clamp
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The only people that I know who have smoked themselves were climbers (except a kid I played football with when we were 16). It would seem every few months lately a climber on this site offs himself.
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ec
climber
ca
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BWhAhAhA!
'Sounds just like the same BS that a psychology student girlfriend told me BITD. It is strange how some peeps arrived to these conclusions without having fully investigating the facts or merely being biased against climbing because they haven't done it, or cannot fathom the reasons why...and many cannot answer that!
 ec
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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I was merely underlining my intolerance for what society deems as "OK"
that's all
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Death is just the beginning. Right?
Yea but what kind of beginning do you create when ur last act was murder?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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There is no murder. Just the end of your mortal body.
Right!
But there is "murder" to the body. Like if I strangled the neighbors cat for meowing alnight.
And there is "murder" of character if I say "your a no good, thieving, lying, two time'in, SOB!"
When it wasn't true?
"Murder is in the eye of the beholder."
Blueblocr
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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^^ I think you need to reread my post.
You can't kill a character, because is does not exist. Character is just a play.
I thought EVERYTHING is REAL?
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WBraun
climber
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Murder to the body is meaningless
No ... murder means you took and destroyed someones body without permission.
When the soul is sent to the material world it requires an appropriate material body to work in.
To kill without karmic reaction one must have permission.
A soldier in combat with other combatants under orders is free from karmic reaction is an example.
Without bonafide permission it's murder.
You have no bonafide permission to maintain industrialized animal slaughterhouses thus you're all murderers also.
Stupid Americans.
The law of karma will act whether one believes or not just as the doctor administers medicine which will act whether one believes or not ....
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Without bonafide permission it's murder.
You have no bonafide permission to maintain industrialized animal slaughterhouses thus you're all murderers also.
YES!..... But if we haven't preconceived permission. We by divine right can go to Jesus Christ for remission of ALLsins.
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John M
climber
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Werner and I disagree somewhat on the karma made during a war. To protect yourself and your family, it doesn't rise to the level of murder. But there can be serious karma made, especially if your leader is enacting war out of ego rather then a divine leading. And yes, there can be a divine leading. Putting a stop to Hitler is the easiest example of that. And even if one is following a divine leading, one can still murder during a war. One example would be if one captures an enemy and then kills them outright. So how one behaves during a war is still important.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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your still culpable here in this plane and responsible for your actions
Oh Yea,, reality, here, NOW! If i eat to much beef ill get high cholesterol and die.
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