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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Mar 24, 2010 - 11:06pm PT
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One thing no one has mentioned which I can, since I live in Japan and no one can accuse me of being involved, is the long tradition of hunting and self defense in the mountain states regardless of the current law.
My grandmother had many entertaining stories of outwitting the game warden in her youth. She was particularly incensed to be told during the Great Depression that the elk eating off their haystacks could not even be fired at over their heads. Needless to say, that only lasted as long as the game warden was around and everyone else ate a lot of elk that winter.
I have no doubt that there are young men illicitly hunting wolves as I write and that quite a few, especially if caught on someone's ranch, will find themselves shot and buried in a remote place just outside the legal border of that ranch.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Mar 24, 2010 - 11:12pm PT
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Jan-
Ranchers joke about the "triple-S" program: Shoot. Shovel. Shut up. I don't know of any instances--recently. This applies to the wolves, of course.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Mar 25, 2010 - 12:16am PT
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I’ve heard substantial gossip about wolves being shot without a legal tag. There has been a deep polarization developing in Idaho in the last few years, mostly against the wolves.
When the wolves were introduced in Yellowstone and the Idaho Wilderness areas, most locals seemed to have a wait-and-see attitude. The rapid growth of the packs and their presence near rural habitation and small communities alarmed many. But the unsympathetic brash and ridicule from “greenies” outside the Rocky Mountains has turned the locals toward a strong anti wolf polarity……social psychological theory at work.
No doubt, the recent terrorizing and menacing of campers at Colson Creek and other campgrounds will be used as rationale, by many, for shooting wolves on sight.
The government reimbursing fifty dollars for wolf slain, newborn calves means little to cattle growers. A seven month calf will sell for a minimum of $600 and full grown heifer and steers can sell for well over a thousand, depending on the market.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Mar 25, 2010 - 01:30am PT
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When I lived in Turkey, the dogs of the nomads who lived in the mountains there wore large spiked iron collars which supposedly kept the wolves from being able to kill them?
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Mar 25, 2010 - 05:42am PT
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hey there jan... say, that is interesting... wow, wonder if its true... thanks for the share...
say, jennie... thanks so very kindly for the welcome home!
:)
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Mar 25, 2010 - 10:12am PT
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Until they got old and died, we had 2 Rottweilers here at home. I would not have risked either of them against a wolf attack, even though they were both very large for the breed. "Adolf" was about 155 pounds and smarter than Hell. He was too smart to risk his a$$ in a wolf fight; he'd much rather be home watching television and sleeping. He died at 11 1/2 from Cushing's disease. "Krystal" was our Rottie bitch, weighing in at 160#. She would have gone after a wolf--no effing doubt in my mind--had we let her. On the other hand, these wolves can weighin up to 200 pounds and are totally vicious.
Llamas are use in Wyoming in herds of sheep for protection. They can kill a coyote in a heartbeat. They stomp the living $hit out of them. Can use a coyote that has been thus flattend as a throw rug. The coyotes think they are a funny looking sheep--much to their dismay.
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reddirt
climber
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Mar 25, 2010 - 12:21pm PT
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Brokedownclimber:
sorry for your (wife's) loss.
I have know guys to shoot dogs molesting w/ livestock... I see no humane/effective alternative.
naive question: do people ever use Great Pyrenees or similar breeds anymore?
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Mar 25, 2010 - 01:38pm PT
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Greater Pyrenees are still used widely in sheep herd protection; one of my friends and neighbors has 6 of them. He sprays them with hair dyes to make them easier to discriminate from the sheep at a distance. Ever see a lime green or chartreuse GP? Hilarious!
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Mar 26, 2010 - 09:24pm PT
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It's becoming obvious to Idahoans....only a laser-eyed-Rokjox can save our herds !
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Mar 26, 2010 - 10:18pm PT
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Awoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Bump!
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 26, 2010 - 11:25pm PT
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Who would win in a fight-- 1 big mean wolf or 1 average-sized, unarmed man who is not afraid of a fight?
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Mar 26, 2010 - 11:36pm PT
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You are kidding, aren't you? A man simply doesn't have the necessary natural weapons of the wolf. Maybe a black belt kareteka....? Nah!
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 27, 2010 - 12:45am PT
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I am not kidding--I honestly don't know.
I asked about an "average guy" and I guess you think the wolf would win.
OK, what about wolf v. trained human fighter? Seems like a human ju-jitsu expert could grab the wolf's limbs and quickly dislocate them, and then dispatch the wolf at his leisure. On the other hand, one good chomp from the wolf and I guess that would be it.
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taorock
Trad climber
Okanogan, WA
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Mar 27, 2010 - 12:51am PT
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I know of a late 50's early 60's man with decades experience in a martial art, who had an encounter with a mountain lion where he "won". He was hiking down a trail and was jumped from above and behind by a lion. He sensed it coming and reached back over himself (not knowing what "it" was and used its momentum to flip it forward onto the ground in front of him. He made eye contact with a very startled creature that then ran away.
Blahblah, one defense that I've heard of for a dog jumping toward the front of a person is to grab both of the extended front paws and spread them outwards as you drop and roll backwards. The idea being to flip the animal and dislocate the front legs.
Honest, I don;t think about this stuff. Just what I've heard. take it or leave it.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Mar 27, 2010 - 08:13pm PT
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Maybe a pair of Samurai Warriors back-to-back with katanas could hold out? It would make a good game for a bookie!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Mar 27, 2010 - 11:08pm PT
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The very fact that someone could even ask the question shows what the problem is. Between urban life and Disney productions, people have totally lost track of the reality of the natural world, especially of predators. In the age of television and the internet, people have also lost track of the folk wisdom of the ages. The children's story of the big bad wolf didn't spring out of nowhere.
This month's National Geographic features the wolf debate by the way. I just bought it yesterday but haven't had time to read it.
And I do like the samurai image! What do you bet that scenario has already been played out in history by aboriginals with spears and arrows?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 27, 2010 - 11:17pm PT
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I wonder if anyone swallows that story? Or if it's just the wolf that does the swallowing, metaphorically anyway?
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Mar 28, 2010 - 10:33am PT
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Most people just have NO CONCEPT of the strength of animals relative to humans. I recall a story about a pro wrestler who wanted to grapple with a gorilla, and was advised that he would probably lose to a 50 pound chimpanzee. I work around cattle all the time, and just trying to ear tag a newborn calf is tough enough. When my wife was still able to help out, I recall her jumping on top of a 85 pound bull calf lying on the ground--straddling it in a riding position. She weighs 100 pounds, and was holding it down to be tagged. The calf simply got up and she went for a ride across the pasture. This is a less than 2 hour old calf!
I think a full-grown wolf weighing 180 pounds could literally make mincemeat out of a human in mere seconds. Jan is correct about the "big bad wolf stories." There is a serious element of truth contained in them, as that was a way to "folk educate" children about the world in less "civilized" times.
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reddirt
climber
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Mar 28, 2010 - 10:48am PT
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Who would win in a fight-- 1 big mean wolf or 1 average-sized, unarmed man who is not afraid of a fight?
I seriously thought that was just Friday night PUI (posting under intoxication)...
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 28, 2010 - 11:22am PT
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Lone wolves are rare, but given the scenario where one stalks an unarmed man as prey the major variables strike me as;
1) How soon is the man aware of the wolf?
2) Are there rocks available that would make effective missiles?
3) Are there any other possible improvised weapons?
4) How far is a safe place?
Jeez yous guys! Didn't you have much to do? I gotta do taxes!
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