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Srbphoto
Trad climber
Kennewick wa
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Charging use fees may mean the land manager is no longer protected from liability by the California Recreational Use Statute.
The first thing we were told at orientation with the Curry Company was "You no longer are in California, California's liberal laws do not apply here." Granted they were talking about drugs but I think it applies.
OT the second thing they told us was "be careful what you do in a tent cabin, everyone can hear you".
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
شقوق واس
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There used to be trees on top of Half Dome.
Not Many, But they were there.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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big beautiful SIGNS!!!!
...everywhere...
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jiimmy
Boulder climber
san diego
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Start a thread, half dome cables come down...for good. See if more people bitch about that than, half dome day use permits thread. Make decision based on which of the two threads get the least bitches. More people bitch about the permits, just close er down. More people bitch about closing half dome, keep permit idea alive. This is really the only fair way to decide the fate of HD.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
شقوق واس
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Well, actually, it'll STILL be there.
The Jerry's just won't be able to get there.
NOBODY can go everywhere. Or can they? Hmm.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Thanks jimmy - for telling the Interior Dept that the decision making
process revolves around the SuperTopo servers.
It was supposed to be a secret!
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
شقوق واس
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Maybe WE should just put one up?
Eff The Man, It's OUR park. Let's just do it ourselves.
Gotta kill that last tree.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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It is having to decide 6 months in advance that you want to hike half dome
on the weekends...
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E Robinson
climber
Salinas, CA
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The Half Dome cables make for an awe inspiring wilderness and adventure pilgramage. Many plan and work towards it for years. I suspect managing the fee, the fee breakers and all that will take away a lot of dreams from people of all shapes, sizes and backgrounds who aspire to touch that incredible summit. I hate to think of fines and paperwork and arguments at the base of Half Dome. What a crappy job for the person who has to check the paperwork (I guess the incredible view may offset the crappy moments, but yuck.) Better just respect the importance of the pilgramage, add an up and down lane...and keep the crowds from going to Clouds Rest or Mt. Clark.
Elliott
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Dirka
Trad climber
SF
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I'll play:
My rant and 2 cents.
I hate how Yos is the cash cow for many of the other parks. It sets a horrible example for the other parks and keeps the beuros addicted to the steady flow of $. I mean, you cant shake a stick in the valley with out hitting a concession stand, food mart, or gift shop. Luxury hotel, how about a 5 star experience. Let's throw in a couple of swimming pools, day cares, etc... ad nausium.
This mentality also robs visitors of a "genuine" wilderness experience. I vote strip it down to more of a Jtree style. A large part of the problem with over crowding in Yos is that it is virtually an alpine city with all the perks and problems. If the park were allowed to return to a more natural state, I'd bet that many of the awanhi (sp) style visitors would go elsewhere (NPS: it is not a resort!). Think bare bones and let the park leave the impression on the visitor, not the Gov't leaving their impression on the park. Teddy and Muir did not envision the modern spectical that is now Yosemite Valley.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
شقوق واس
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Right on. I like dirt, trees, rocks, etc.
I'd go along. no road? Hike in.
Talk about adapting, huh? The numbers would drop like flies.
DNC would be bummed, but, oh well. You had your turn.
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tarek
climber
berkeley
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of course the Park Service sees a mess that they want to fix, Werner. And no one is blaming you or JesseM. But I would ask you both: what could the Park Service ever do that would cause you to openly protest or blow the whistle? It's a question that I ask respectfully.
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tarek
climber
berkeley
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Imagine the following:
There exists a spectacular climbing route with the grade A0. It's weird and flawed, but allows around one million novice climbers per dozen years to experience the most basic of french-free aid and shoes on slippery granite. And now imagine--it's a stretch, but bear with me--that the Park Service decides it wants to limit these novice climbers by imposing a permit system, with its shuffling bureaucracy, fees, fines, scoldings, recorded messages, press one, press 2, tedious walks across valley asphalt, impatient children, worn pencils, sad disappointment meals with ice cream, promises, accusations of bad planning by spouses, rain-outs on the appointed day and a swirling cloud of unintended consequences.
Would you, as a climber, sit still and watch this happen?
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful British Columbia
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If the permit check is at the trail head in the valley, how does that impact folks going to solo snake dike ? Or folks whom have no interest in hiking the cables but wish to make it to the shoulder ?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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If the permit check is at the trail head in the valley, how does that impact folks going to do snake dike ? Or folks whom have no interest in hiking the cables but wish to make it to the shoulder ?
It wont affect those doing snake dike. You will still be able to hike anywhere and climb anything except the subdome/shoulder and the cables. If you reach the top of halfdome by snake dike, or any other climbing route, you will be allowed to descend the cables. Going down the cables wont be limited, but going up the shoulder and the cables will be.
For now..
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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"The public caused this mess in first place.
The Park service is bound to manage the mess.
When a big mess comes up the Park service ends up having to do something about it whether they want to or not.
The NPS is bound by their nature to have to manage for better or worse.
This is what happens when there is over use ...... "
So, Werner, since you were so quick to jump to the defense of your bosses and blame "the public" for the supposed problem, why is the de facto answer of the Interior Department and the Dept. of Agriculture always a fee and a permit? There have been plenty of good alternative solutions to the "safety concern" that the NPS raised to institute this fee/permit program that do not require permanent increases in staffing, outside constractors, or loss of freedom to the public. Please answer when or if these will be considered, or if they are not to be considered please tell us why.
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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Oh, come on Jeff. "The public caused this mess in first place"???
Ya'll are in California. There's 38+ million of you guys. If if ain't elbow to elbow yet, including in Yosemite, its dang close. Ya can't blame "the public" for a couple d-bags that fell of the cables.
I appreciate all that Jesse does to keep us informed.
Just got to call BS on this one from Werner.
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Toreador
Trad climber
York, UK
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To those suggesting installing a second lane:
Do you really think that people will take any notice of the one-way rules?
If there's one lane with a big queue, and the other lane is quiet, would everyone really stand in line? Or just go up the down lane?
Note, I'm from England. Maybe in the US, people behave differently from over here...
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