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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Jan 24, 2010 - 03:21pm PT
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I hate to say it, but this is just the end of the line with regards to the courts being activist to a conservative majority.
Not to mention, for the last 20 years we've been fooled into believing the conservatives were for the american family, for the american worker, and for the american dream....
The examples they leave behind is indicative of the end of the world theory they seem to believe to the core... but I could be wrong, I'm only reporting on what I've seen in the last bunch of years.
And yes, I state again.. CORPORATIONS ARE NOT HUMAN BEINGS
and yes, we have just handed whatever idea of democracy over to the highest bidder... thanks to gwb
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Jan 24, 2010 - 03:41pm PT
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Jingy -If you'd think some more about this Supreme Court ruling
into free speech you'd change your mind and stop denying the importance of US business's need to elect people who want it to prosper in a global economy.
As long as Labor Unions can make political contributions you have to allow the Corporations to do the same.
In 2010, Democrats will get big labor $$ (as always) but now -Hah-ha!- we Republican's will get money from big business!
Now its fair and I think you suspect you're sides gonna lose and I agree.
Cheers and sorry the President has popped a gasket over this.
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apogee
climber
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Jan 24, 2010 - 04:13pm PT
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"I do check the donate to elections box on my tax return. In fact I'd happily donate $20/yr to publicly fund elections.
"This, or some variation on it, is more or less exactly what DMT and I are proposing via constitutional amendment. 1 - Remove the rights of any larger entity than the individual to pay for elections, and 2 - Provide a new method for elections to be funded, either out of the public coffer or from limited individual contributions."
Sounds like reasonable strategy to me, too. I doubt it would gain much traction, though, because a) the Repugs would hold a teaparty and complain about taxation and fascism, and b) the corporate special interests that already run this country (directly and via all politicians) would never allow such a threat to their control.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 24, 2010 - 04:17pm PT
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...big labor...
Compared to the spending power of corporations the vey idea of 'big labor' is a myth these days. The days of 'big labor' are long gone and their coffers pail in comparison to corporations.
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Jan 24, 2010 - 04:28pm PT
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wow.. yeah, I never thought of the labor unions as being such a threat....
When you can site me some figures that show the financial win-fall of the labor unions or if they contribute anywhere near that same amount or more than corporate contributions, then I'll fall off the observation deck and join your side on this.. until then, both of our democracy's have been sold...I wouldn't cheer for it.... Unless that's your goal?
happy democracy to ya
1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3. a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4. political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5. the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jan 24, 2010 - 07:16pm PT
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Constitutional amendments are always tough to pass, particularly when the people can be snowed and the issues aren't plainly obvious to Joe Six pack.
Things will get worse until people wake up, and then the real struggle will begin because Power will use this sort of power to manipulate to stay in power
PEace
Karl
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Binks
Social climber
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Jan 24, 2010 - 08:40pm PT
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I can see it now, try to change the law or pass an amendment and a dozen "corporations" will come into existence to punish the airwaves with advertisements proclaimn the end of "freedom, patriotism, and security" should such a reform pass. They have so much money that any challenges will be lost forever in the legal system long past the effectiveness of the challenge. We don't have a Democracy anymore. It's gone. The seeds of revolution have surely been sown. It may take a few years for them to sprout but it's on the way.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Jan 24, 2010 - 09:54pm PT
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Big Labor was strong enough to drive General Motors bankrupt.
June 1 2009
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- General Motors filed for bankruptcy protection early Monday, a move once viewed as unthinkable...
They accomplished a miracle supporting so many retiree's for so long.
Now we taxpayers are supporting them. Joy!
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Jingy
Social climber
Nowhere
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Jan 24, 2010 - 10:23pm PT
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Ok, based on the information I received when I viewed your website from the front row, I was not shocked to find that "Labor Unions" is listed as contributing 8 Laborers Union $28,814,400 92% 7%
mostly for the democrats...
Now I'd like you to point your eyes at the rest of the 99 that are an on that list and ask yourself, for each one "Is it a corporation, or is it a Union"..
I think you'll find that the majority of that list (you sent me to) is made up of people, just like you and me, who can care less about people like you and me, and only want their wallets to get thicker.
lemming have a better rationale
btw... uh... GM died.. it had nothing ot do with the people at the bottom.. and everything to do with the people at the top and their mismanagement of resources. but I guess we can debate how and why GM died until the end of our time here on this planet..
man, you guys are smart!!! not sure if that should be taken as a compliment tcoming form a complete dumb ass like myself..
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jan 24, 2010 - 10:53pm PT
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Karl Rove, Karen Hughes and the Art of the Video News Release...
Nothing new or different here except for the medium from what has been going on in print since the invention of newsprint.
Hell, when I was in high school we successfully scammed the local newspaper in to printing a story that got one of our crew an Annapolis appointment. There's a whole industry of "news releases" in the industrial world. many on video that are swallowed hook line and sinker.
Reporters are the laziest creatures on the planet and if spoon fed will regurgitate on cue. Politicians of every stripe have been taking advantage of this since time immemorial. How about Walter Duranty? The NYT apologist for Stalin in the 30's? What you should be condemning is the lazy media that will regurgitate whatever is conveniently placed in front of them no matter the source.
There's quite a difference between that and trying to make the NEA a new ministry of propaganda, and getting caught at it.
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apogee
climber
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Jan 24, 2010 - 11:13pm PT
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"Reporters are the laziest creatures on the planet and if spoon fed will regurgitate on cue."
Sounds exactly like more than a few ST Repugs I can think of.
Too bad we can't rise above stoooopid generalizations like both of these and discuss issues in a thought provoking manner.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Jan 24, 2010 - 11:18pm PT
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Thank you Jingy. Unions didn't bring down the company, bad planning from the top did. Had they kept up with making fuel efficient vehicles, seriously explored hybrids (how much $$ has Toyota made off the Prius by now?) and changed their business model, things could be so different. You can be ahead of the business curve or behind it...unions don't determine that, the execs do.
Yet those execs who made short sided decision still made it out with millions in parachute clauses.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Jan 24, 2010 - 11:25pm PT
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"As long as Labor Unions can make political contributions you have to allow the Corporations to do the same."
Jesus F Christ...
Corniss Chopper, you realize the ONLY reason unions exist is because of the horrible inhumane practices of CORPORATIONS??
Unions are not awash in cash, they have meager membership dues to work with. Corporations on the other hand have billions of profit money to work with. BIG difference in comparing the two.
Are you incapable of realizing that unions are a way of employees paying in from their own paychecks to protect themselves against possible inustices by their overlording corporations while corporations are there to simply generate revenue off everything and everyone at all costs??
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jan 24, 2010 - 11:27pm PT
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What planet are you writing this from?
(Ex Steelworker)
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jan 24, 2010 - 11:49pm PT
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Sorry, Flouride, but I don't see how this decision brings about less customer service. Every private firm must make a profit or it will become insolvent. In the private sector, the way to make a profit is to provide goods or services that people will pay for without coercion. By and large, we have a choice for most private sector suppliers. If we don't like their combination of price, goods and services, we go elsewhere. Nothing in the Citizens United case changes that.
If consumer service goes down, it will be because consumers are unwilling to pay for better service (which is the story for most retail goods).
John
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