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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2009 - 01:59pm PT
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There it is. Keep living your life in fear Bluey and pals. Fear makes you do irrational things. Like gobbling up a bunch of bullsh#t.
I actually don't live in fear, I live in reality. I don't fear for my personal life from terrorism, nor my family's. I fear for all the others who are unfortunate enough to be on flights of 300 peeps who were saved by a detonator malfunction.
Imagine if that baby went off. That's roughly 300 families devastated on Christmas day, for what? Because a lonely Muslim got talked into martydom by people too cowardly to kill themselves in the name of Allah? F*#king cowards!
I don't live in fear. I live alert!
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Dec 31, 2009 - 02:30pm PT
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"Or if Spartacus had a Piper Cub?"
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2009 - 02:31pm PT
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And nothing happened, the bomb was a dud
no deaths, no explosion, no terror
hence, there wasn't even a terrorist attack
what a bunch of cry babies
That is so idiotic, I don't think I need to comment on it....
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 31, 2009 - 02:56pm PT
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Maybe we should combine the terrorism and evolution threads because our two trillion in war dollars bought an evolutionary surge in asymmetric warfare in the form of rapid advances in IEDs and Suicide Bomb technologies.
And how does that help the 'terrorists'? Think Ronald Reagan! Political legend has it that Ronnie 'spent the Russians into the ground'. Well, that's pretty much how successful 'terrorism' works as well. What do we have to spend, and what behavior do we have to change, to counter an IED or suicide bomber? How much do we have spend, and what behavior do we have to change, to counter ever increasing sophistication in IEDs and suicide bombs?
The air terrorism statistics above and Skip's comments combine to get to the very heart of the matter - bang for the buck - quite literally. What did one failed suicided bomber with an as yet unperfected device cost the United States in time, dollars, and angst? The device didn't explode, but by any measure was a highly successful tatical event in an on-going asymmetric war. We call it 'terrorism' because the desired outcome isn't a high death toll, but rather punishing unsustainable costs, untenable behavoir changes, and quality of life degradations that serve as a constant irritant.
Dollar for dollar, we're on the losing side of the equation - the more security protocols and dollars we throw at the problem, the lower our quality of life. Every dollar the 'terrorists' spend has an ROI of tens of millions of dollars on our side. It's completely unsustainable. Just the very idea that there might be any 'winning' involved in the conduct of an asymmetric 'war on terror' is the problem with the whole 'war on...' concept. As the 'war on drugs' or Prohibition have shown, there is no 'winning' - it's about as bankrupt an idea as one could come up with.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2009 - 04:16pm PT
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I have a better idea, Helayje, how about we school a religion that you're not going meet virgins when you blow yourself up up killing innocent westerners (infidels).
You know this too!!!! You're being disingenuous.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 31, 2009 - 04:32pm PT
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You know this too!!!! You're being disingenuous.
Huh? I wasn't being disingenuine in the slightest, just stating the cold, hard facts of the predicament we find ourselves in. It's absolutely no different than the war on drugs or immigration. So long as we demand drugs and illegal employment, then we'll have both problems on a permanent basis. So long as we're dependent on ME oil we'll have 'terrorism' as a permenant problem - and one not in any way solvable with a convential military or 'war'.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 31, 2009 - 04:35pm PT
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I've met Dick Cheney, he's a good guy and knows the world's issues.
You shook his hand at best. I'd be astounded if more than three syllables were exchanged in the meeting. The only definitive statement about Cheney that can be made is he is a Dick with a capital 'D'. That, and he is both a guilty of numerous felonies and a traitor to the United States.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 31, 2009 - 05:37pm PT
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 31, 2009 - 05:43pm PT
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Well maybe if our intelligence infrastructure had standardized records like VA Hospitals have had for years their results would be better.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Fattrad,
Ted Bundy was a charming man also, from what i read. Cheyney is complicit in crimes against humanity (Iraq, that illegal as f*#k and unneccessary "war", need I say more?), crimes against his own country, probably crimes against puppies as well. Did you thoroughly clean the slime from your hand after you gripped his claws?
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Reeotch
Trad climber
Kayenta, AZ
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More americans have been killed by "terrorists" in Iraq and Afganistan than in the US, far more.
Isn't it interesting that there was no Al Qeda in Iraq before the US invaded.
C'mon bluering, the numbers posted above show that the "War on Terror" is based on a vastly exagerated threat. Therefore, said "war" (war was never declared in any sort of legal way) is an irrational reaction to an immagined threat.
If anything we are creating more terrorists than we are killing. If you saw your family members killed by US bombs, it would not be difficult to persuade you to join some radical group, such as Al Qeda in Iraq (which, I will remind you again, DID NOT EXIST BEFORE THE US INVASION).
It is called the Law of Cause and Effect (karma).
But, you seem content to just believe the governments stated reasons for continuing this insanity.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2010 - 05:01pm PT
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Maybe the last 2 posters don't pay enough attention to geo-politics, recent events, and aren't capable of putting 2 and 2 together.
They have (the Islamic extremists in their faith) claimed to want to build an Islamic Caliphate capable of bringing down "Western" gov'ts. That is their stated fact!!!! They keep saying it!
Okay, now look around the world and see where Islamists are trying to overthrow countries to install Sharia gov'ts.
I'll help you. Nigeria, Mali, Sudan, Somalia, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Chechnya, Philippines, Southern Thailand, Indonesia, and the infestation is spreading. (This doesn't even account for the spread of radical Islam in Europe). You either confront them and wipe it out, or succumb to it.
To say we started this is pretty simple minded. Most of those countries listed above have no US military presence.
And the idiotic argument that we create more by fighting them....weak argument. Think about it.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2010 - 05:11pm PT
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Can you speak English, Rocky...be more clear in your point?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2010 - 05:24pm PT
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You're wrong, what you claim is exactly the problem. The everlasting poverty and oppression since the 14th century exacerbates the problem. People are willing to adopt radical ideas and preachings that claim to bring them "Allah's glory" and what not.
This is where we need to step in and help them reform their 7th century or 14th century versions of Islam to be compatible with the 'others' in the world.
They need help. And they need the 'hate-preachers' dead!
Osama, Zawahiri, et al...They are incompatible with moderate Islam. The preach slavery, oppression of women, and no respect for animals either.
The Saudis don't really f*#king help us out either....they impede this move. And as Fatty says, the Saudis are either gonna change, or they're gonna go too!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2010 - 05:26pm PT
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Also, the reason these Islamists hate the US so much is because we have them figured out and they realize they will lose unless they attack us.
They'll still lose, it's just a matter of how many lives to be lost on each side. Who really stands for life and peace?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2010 - 06:16pm PT
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Rocky, because we ARE an excellent and benevolent nation, we WILL overcome this challenge.
It's always easy to quit, give up , and call it a lost cause, but we learned from the past, some of us.
These people need a long-term friend. And yeah, we will ask for favors in the future, like airbases in their country.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2010 - 07:25pm PT
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The "islamic world" is a joke of mud walls and unbathed 40 year old, old men. If you don't put targets in front of them, they can't cause any more problem.
Look at how impotent this "threat" is. Almost NO actual operations successful for 9 years.
Rocky, that is not accurate. While it is an unbathed force and ancient, they are determined. Hence, the need to confront them immediately.
Targets in front of them? That is stupid. They wil come here again if they are left unchecked or alive. Better to kill them there before they get here.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2010 - 11:04am PT
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The Russians wanted to conquer the land and used somewhat brutal, indiscriminate means to do it. We have chosen a somewhat more civilian friendly means that hopefully will win the support of peaceful Afghanis.
If you think the Chechnya problem is over for Russia, you haven't been paying attention. It ain't.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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"Better to kill them there before they get here."--bluering
See, therin lies the problem; blowing away to smithereens every last one of them--for just by being over there, we and we alone are creating the opportunity for the(ir) numbers to grow.
Kind of a spendy "Catch-22", if you will--VERY SPENDY (as in your tax dollars).
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2010 - 12:56pm PT
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So what's the alternative, Mojede? They have had a will to murder infidels for a long time. Before we 'started the problem'. Should we just ignore this? Or attempt to change it?
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