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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 28, 2011 - 03:29am PT
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This I disagree with insofar as ground up slab climbs are very often bolted at available natural stances, which dictate the degree of runout and hence risk.
I could certainly be wrong and never given it a shot, but I find it a somewhat dubious proposition that on B-Y there were no more possible places to have hung on a hook to drill other than the four he did. Seems to me he probably made some choices around that and wanted it spicy but survivable. Again, if that's wrong please feel free to jump in and say so.
As far as ground up drilling, I have no doubt it's stance to stance, but I've been on a few that were spicy even though there were intermediate stances. That's certainly not to say they are all that way.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 28, 2011 - 04:57am PT
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Also, from a bolting / risk perspective, it would seem to me that pretty much every bolted line, but especially slabs, are by definition contrived from a risk perspective - BY certainly is and I suspect we can safely say the top of Growing Up is as well. How could they not be - someone made a personal / executive / FA decision on the bolt spacing - isn't that 'contrived'?
Well, on the other hand, most cracks can be protected at will and so different Ascents often have very different levels of boldness in climbing routes defined by cracks.
I'm not sure how that's any more noble. I'm not judging it, it is what it is, but to me climbing is climbing and there are many mediums for it, Ice, cracks, Slab, aid, free, yada, yada.
we create an ego identification with the climbing we do and the status quo in our community of kindred climbers (where we often conform) and then get defensive when somebody goes against our grain.
Until times change and yesterdays puritans become todays hangdogggers and sport climbers (including perhaps some who pooped on ropes)
Peace
Karl
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 28, 2011 - 06:26am PT
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I'm not sure how that's any more noble...
You should take that up with 'Rudder', he's the one pushing the the manufactured contrivance argument. My comments were in reaction to his, and the fact I find this argument, if accepted at face value, to be one which necessarily paints with rather broad strokes tainting some otherwise sacred cows in the process.
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Jul 28, 2011 - 06:34am PT
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Rokjox-
Sorry, I don't play games…they wasted too much time unless you are hopelessly snowed in. Aye, there’s something to be said for that. Point of fact I left it behind a year ago on entering grad school due to the time commitment WoW required. I value my experiences with the game though, it has led to some great friendships with folk from all around the planet.
The finest purpose of Supertop in my opinion is the gathering and condensing of climbing history into one place, using the actual first (and second) person testimony of the participants. I know of no other sport where the past has become pursued in quite this way and with this intensity.
Indeed. Point of fact, tracking Ammon’s past and present exploits here has me wondering if I’m not yet too old to get into Wingsuit Base Jumping – some of the videos about it have nearly brought me to tears, and I can honestly say I hear it calling to me. Also, that man is out of his freaking mind, and I respect the hell out of him for it.
Similarly, I am glad for ST as a platform for participant testimony to be provided. Like I’ve mentioned, this is without a doubt the first place where Smith and Jensen have been able to express their side of the Wings of Steel story to a significant part of the climbing community, and I’m very happy for their sake to see what’s come of it. I do genuinely hope that differences between all parties can be reconciled before the end of the day on all of this.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jul 28, 2011 - 07:34am PT
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so Mimi? lol. were you a shitter? dont worry that aint my kink. MR Grossman? how come you did not man up? how come you actually wrote up these guys in a how to book?
each of you have been quiet lately. for all your hatred on the topic one would think that you might have something to say.
edit:
i did not think that riley had a humorous bone....good one
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Meaty
climber
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Jul 28, 2011 - 08:36am PT
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Mimi = NOT a shitter.
A woman was not involved in the incident.
And Hawkeye, STFU.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jul 28, 2011 - 09:35am PT
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Meaty, we should focus on the good stuff. Got any good climbing pictures to share?? I don't...but here's a poor and recent one. (my son)
and Werners dog, always makes me smile.
Best post of the week Hudon on ZM: http://www.supertopo.com/tr/Zenyatta-Mondatta-Solo-June-2011/t11088n.html
In real life you have young Elvis who was so good looking and so hard core talented, and then you have Old Elvis who still had that glimmer, but was fat and rehashing all his old high spots. We see this is just about all climbers as well with a few exceptions. Then you have Hudon, but there is no "Old or young Hudon like Elvis...there is just "badass" LOL
Take care all!
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chez
Social climber
chicago ill
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Jul 28, 2011 - 10:20am PT
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Who cares?
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Jul 28, 2011 - 10:21am PT
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Clearly, no one.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Jul 28, 2011 - 10:38am PT
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"The ballsiest thing a Sh|tter could do, would be to 'fess up to Mark and Richard. Apologize, and ask for forgiveness."--PTPP
Obviously, you have no clue about the world of COWARDS...
...apologize?
...fess up?
...ask for forgiveness?
Hiding cowards only SH#TE and run !
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 28, 2011 - 10:44am PT
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I sh#t on George Lowe on Latok 1. Middle of the night emergency and I forgot he was on the tiny ledge just below me. Never needed forgiveness and 33 years later it's a humorous memory. Different motives on WOS but it WAS 29 years ago, let it rest.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jul 28, 2011 - 10:51am PT
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Joe 'gingus' Callahan Shat an emergency projectile steaming froth all over my glasses while hanging tenuously on lead from hooks on the A5 crux pitch of the Hallucinogen.
No apology necessary then nor now 22 years later.
Like my children's book says "Everyone Poops".
GROW UP!
What is the Statute of Limitations for covert shatting?
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Jul 28, 2011 - 10:52am PT
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You guys aren't using irregardless enough.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jul 28, 2011 - 10:54am PT
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^^^^ irregardless of intent that's funny ^^^^
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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Jul 28, 2011 - 10:58am PT
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Not irrigardlessly, I nearly sh!t on myself laughing at the last few poosts.
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east side underground
Trad climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Jul 28, 2011 - 11:05am PT
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irraguardlessly: Grossman = real deal ( and a damn fine human being)
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jul 28, 2011 - 11:07am PT
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Did you mean POOsts
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jul 28, 2011 - 11:17am PT
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more than one has said that SG is a good man. so why did he say he would climb the route then did not? why did he write these guys up in a How TO book on Ethics? you see, his writing these guys up was a way to approve what the shitters did.
now, SG may have his own motivations with Smith and Jensen, i dont know.
but El Cap is a rock and S&J are people. its one thing to disagree with peeps, its an entirely different thing to write them up in a Big Wall Ethics Chapter as a bad example.
that was low class. coming from a highly regarded individual.
i am not doing anything other then requesting a position from the highly regarded individual....but this website is as cliquish as the valley was 29 years ago.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Jul 28, 2011 - 11:41am PT
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Well, irregardless of how you feel about SG and Mimi, Amnon and Kait have still not reported what they found on the route. SC and his wife may still be right.
IMHO neither side has argued their case with much respect to the other side. When I go back and read some of the comments on both sides, I'm struck at how immature they are.
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