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Wonder
climber
WA
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Oct 12, 2010 - 09:50pm PT
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Ok, so are you going to show us your climbing pics?
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Oct 12, 2010 - 09:57pm PT
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Yep alot of monkey business going on.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Oct 12, 2010 - 10:04pm PT
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 12, 2010 - 10:08pm PT
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I'm bummed. Unlike graniteclimber I can't put "Illuminati Mole" on my resume.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Oct 12, 2010 - 10:22pm PT
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I wish I could tell you, but I can't give away ALL our secrets.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
I've lost track...
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Oct 12, 2010 - 10:24pm PT
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I think we can safely put gc in the category of 'system noise'
Ok, so I’ll answer the question about the moon, assuming you want a slightly longer answer than, no or I don't know. The first I heard about the great ark was on this site, although I might have run across it in other literature and don’t recall.
I read a lot of material on all sorts of subjects and have a large personal library. I have a lot more material on what you might call unusual phenomena than has appeared here, although there are a few things that have appeared here that were unfamiliar to me. The challenge has always been that there is so much professionally published disinformation material that it is hard to determine what is the truth that they are trying to steer you away from.
I have noticed that anytime someone gets close to the truth on some of these subjects, you can count on a dozen alternate realities being published to throw you off the track. I call that the Big Lie Technique. You can tell how important the truth might be, by looking at how much disinformation gets published on the subject.
NASA has immense stores of data that have never been looked at. The NASA Ames Supercomputer complex has online storage facilities measured in petabytes and growing rapidly. I am a glutton for information, but this makes the Library of Congress look like a storage closet.
NASA Goddard in Maryland competes with Ames in this area. The first time I got a tour three decades ago from one of my astronomer/climbing partners; we walked down long hallways that were stacked high with 16” magnetic computer tapes, a lot of it from Apollo. Nobody around seemed to know what to do with them.
There was also a long series of mission operation rooms, each dedicated to a particular active exploration mission. You could glance into the room and guess the decade in which the mission had been launched by the era of the computers in the room. Some of them were vacuum tube computers with punched paper tape and cards. Decades later some of these are still in operation and still cranking out data.
Part of the challenge at NASA Ames Supercomputer Division is making sense out of all this data. The programming team on site is kept busy doing a lot of work in Computational Fluid Dynamics for flight vehicles. Another major focus is global climate modeling. Ames is quite proud of being able to run global climate models dramatically faster than other supercomputer centers around the world.
The projects I helped manage are run by teams all over the world, who are given accounts to login to the supercomputer complex. The work can involve anything you are likely to read about in any scientific journal. The ability to crunch massive amounts of data is opening up possibilities for understanding in many fields of research. Part of our job in the project office was prioritizing who would get how much computational access to the complex. I was D/Project Mgr/Lead Systems Engineer for Computational Aerospace Sciences.
So back to lunar data: Various endeavors have come together to geo-reference lunar photography and datasets. Over the years I have done a lot of in-the-trenches work to geo-reference scanned maps and satellite photography leading up to Google Earth and NASA WorldWind. It is extremely tedious work.
The current Director of NASA Ames is an astronomer USAF general who was the power behind the Clementine Mission to the Moon. We’ve had discussions late into the night over too many bottles of wine on some of these subjects. If anyone knows about the great ark, it would be him; as he ran the USAF Space Systems Division. However the topic never came up. He made some agreements with Google that brought you GoogleMoon. (I was recently tagged to work on that, but a younger brat got the job.) He has also in recent years started up an important project to recover all the old tapes with lunar data and bring them onto modern media. They had to rebuild an old 16” tape drive from the Mountainview Computer History Museum in order to get started. I have met their project director and some of the people and toured their facility.
They are working hard to improve the resolution and clean up the tape noise to produce clean images. They periodically release new products on the web, and you have probably seen some of the detailed images from Apollo sites, showing vehicle shadows and astronaut footprints. I had fun at that meeting in the picture above, showing Buzz Aldrin some 3D computer images of his footprints on the moon.
I think it is highly unlikely that the crew at Ames could be enlisted to blot out pictures of alien spacecraft; and even less likely that could be going on and someone would not have let me know about it. However how can I be sure? Perhaps that is why I haven’t been invited onto the project, even though it’s an area of expertise for me. The real reason is senior guys are expensive and NASA is trying to hire a younger crowd.
There is lots more going on than I know about, and I learn about things all the time. However UFOs is not a general topic of conversation around there. But that doesn’t convince me whether there is something worth talking about. Because, remember; I know Linda…
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Oct 12, 2010 - 10:31pm PT
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This wouldn't be the case of a one or two fuzzy res. frames taken from lunar orbit on misplaced reel of magnetic tape over at Goddard. According to Klimmer, a secret Apollo mission was launched to visit the ark. Apollo 20 - Fact or fiction?
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Oct 12, 2010 - 10:33pm PT
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did you go climbing on granite or knott?
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Oct 12, 2010 - 10:53pm PT
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I guess they clock out at 8
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Oct 12, 2010 - 10:59pm PT
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Being good at math apparently can be synonymous with being crazy.
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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Oct 12, 2010 - 11:07pm PT
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I want to know what Linda thinks about the ET equation, the stuff she would never post to Earthfiles.com
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
I've lost track...
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Oct 12, 2010 - 11:42pm PT
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I'm something of a historian on human space flight; which proved pretty useful for the Constellation Program. I was a brat running backup mainframe computers for Apollo when I wasn't hanging out in Camp 4 or working on filming 'Solo' and have been a space nut all my life.
I'm pretty sure that all the known Saturn launch vehicles are accounted for. I have not researched that exhaustively, but probably have the means to do so and perhaps should for this forum. I have records for the allocation of every Apollo/Saturn element used or unused; unless there were some manufactured in secret and not listed in the inventory. I actually have original blueprints for some of the elements. I have toured MAF in New Orleans and it is a huge facility, about 40 acres under one roof, where you could conceivably conceal elements, even though they are large. And it is hard to fathom the size of the Vehicle Assembly Building at the Cape, as you don't have anything else in your experience to compare it to. You walk up to this building like walking up to the side of El Cap with nothing to give you a perspective. You walk into this huge door, hard to say how big; into an immense room that seems endless. After walking through it for a while you realize this is just the anteroom as you pass into an immensely larger space, where it is hard to even get a perspective across it. You start wondering where are those big space shuttles, and then start to see them tucked into relatively small bays in the side of the room.
Saturn V:
SA-512 was Apollo 17 to Taurus Littrow with Cernan, Evans, and Schmitt
SA-513 put SkyLab into Earth orbit unmanned
SA-514 was unused and elements in 1975 were at MAF, KSC, and MSFC
SA-515 was unused and elements in 1975 were at MAF, KSC, and MSFC
Saturn IB:
SA 209 (ASTP Backup) KSC
SA 211 MAF KSC MSFC
SA 212 KSC, S-IVB Stage used on SA 513; and MSFC for disposal
SA 213 MAF (declared surplus, stripped and placed on lot)
SA 214 MAF (ditto)
So for the past ten years I have seen three fairly complete Saturn Vs that were not launched and I have climbed all over them; in Houston, Huntsville and the Cape. The interstages seem to have disappeared along the way. I've seen one became a storage shed at MSFC, along with a neglected SkyLab carcass, that I think is finally being rejuvenated. There is also a complete Instrument Ring at MSFC and an incomplete one in Houston. These Saturn Vs were badly neglected for thirty years, but have now been carefully restored to museum quality in the past few years. It’s worth the trip just to go see one of them.
There is also a static display Saturn 1B that I have seen at MSFC
So could there have been off-the-record vehicles manufactured and launched – perhaps…
Did they? I can only say that people tend to tell me about things like that, and I know a lot of the players and nobody has mentioned anything to me.
Do I think I know about everything? Absolutely not…
That’s the best I can tell you.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 13, 2010 - 12:10am PT
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So could there have been off-the-record vehicles manufactured and launched – perhaps…
Undetected from what facility?
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
I've lost track...
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Oct 13, 2010 - 12:25am PT
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Linda has published extensively on what she knows. My experience with her tells me to trust her reports. I know very well that she would much rather report on much less controversial subjects. She has been drawn into this area of reporting against her will, out of a sense of duty and honesty and persistence.
I have watched the long version of the story unfold, and it is not a pleasant story or one she would have ever wished upon herself. She was the outstanding girl in my High School with all the advantages: her parents some of the most respected members of the community, she was brilliant, beautiful, musically talented, (the piano accompanist for my senior violin recital), Miss Idaho, first runner-up for Miss America, and then married a respectable TV producer. Then she was given an investigative reporter assignment that completely changed her life in ways she never would have imagined (Strange Harvest). She certainly didn't need this in her life. If I didn't know her so well, I probably wouldn't believe what she has to say. But for the record and whatever you may think of me, I do trust her.
Linda is not a fiction writer; she is an investigative reporter and she is very careful about reporting exactly what she herself sees; or else carefully quotes and references the people who give her reports. If she didn't see it herself, she tells you in detail about the person who did and why she believes their report or not. For example one of the people in a missile silo launch control facility that was deactivated by a UFO was her brother.
Linda is especially careful because she does a lot of reporting about things that have been very heavily subjected to ridicule and disinformation.
I can not personally verify most of what she reports. However I have trained a lot of trackers and the first thing I teach them is the difficult art of seeing the fact of the track and not jumping to conclusions; i.e. postponing 'the story' until the track analysis makes it inevitable. I originally learned that method as a child from Linda. Then I relearned it from one of the best trackers in the world.
It is often very difficult to learn the truth of things. It requires suspending disbelief while you have the courage to go search out the facts. This usually requires a lot of hard work. Listening to the voices of the crowd is not how you verify the truth of things.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Oct 13, 2010 - 12:27am PT
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i'd like to meet linda--seriously.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 13, 2010 - 12:30am PT
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It is often very difficult to learn the truth of things.
It is not at all difficult to learn the truth when verifiable, peer-reviewable evidence is presented in an assertion of fact.
It requires suspending disbelief while you have the courage to go search out the facts.
No, it doesn't require "suspending disbelief"; personal beliefs don't really enter into science or real investigative journalism - true versions of both rest on verifiable facts.
If you don't have those, you don't have facts, you have hearsay, innuendo, rumor, ardent beliefs, misinterpretations, delusions, fiction, manufactured lies, or something else, but you don't have facts.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
I've lost track...
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Oct 13, 2010 - 12:50am PT
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I don't recall meeting a J Norris...
There are lots of places where major programs can be kept secluded. I just mentioned the immense size of the MAF and VAB facilities. Plant 42 in Lancaster is another huge facility that was secret for many years and has now been taken over by NASA for non-classified projects like SOPHIA. I visited it about the time NASA took it over. Vandenburg AFB has extensive launch facilities; we just saw a major classified launch northwards over Monterey Bay into a polar orbit. The Air Force recently took over a NASA space plane that I saw neglected for years at Dryden, and launched it out of Canaveral with minimum news coverage. Area 51 and S2 are huge classified facilities. The list goes on and on. Perhaps someone wants to start a thread on underground facilities. That's another huge subject. If you honestly want to learn about stuff, then there is information available. I've actually learned some interesting things on these threads. Some of you just want something else to make noise about. And obviously the MIBs are trolling and dissing. Perhaps it is too much to ask that you take the noise to someplace that appreciates it, like perhaps a football game...
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 13, 2010 - 12:57am PT
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Area 51 and S2 are huge classified facilities.
Ho man .... someone ought to start a thread on that stuff.
The signal to noise level will surely rise to unprecedented levels.
Might be fun and interesting though .......
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