Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
splitter
Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
|
|
The black book was the other aspect of it that I (and others, of course) have brought up. If some of the names in it were of prominent individuals in the north west (where it was evidentely headed) or from wherever, for that matter. What would it be worth to protect their identity? Someone, or several, could have been in C4, watching, listening & waiting for the right opportunity. Word traveled fast, everyone new about Jack & the black book. And, even if it was already history (destroyed) all it would take was a glance at the names and for one prominent/significant one to stick out.
I have the feeling it was someone else though, like I said above. Someone fairly close to him. That's the way I felt then anyway. I think it was personally motivated. Maybe he simply slipped/tripped at the only place on the trail, imo, that it could have happened. There was NO divit or hole, rock nor anything to slip/trip or whatever on. It was flat wher he went over. I'm certain of that.
There was something very unsettling, troubling, disturbing in regards to the whole scenario. Call it second sense, some sort of "divine" insight, revelation or whatever, but it haunted me.
edit: and regarding money, keep in mind the that you could buy a brand new ford f250 4x 0r dodge powerwagon, etc., for about 5K (five grand) where the same vehicle would cost you 50K today. I know because i priced and owned one of them back then and own one now that cost me 50K in '02! So, even 25K would be a substantial amount of money then. I know what kind of money was floating around at that time, & what else needed to be moved out of the ditch (what hadn't made it out/holding, sitting on). Jack wanted to get out of the valley, he was tied down there for a specific reason. He was not comfortable being there. In the meantime, he was looking forward to escaping to a wall...temporary solice, or whatever.
|
|
Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
|
|
I've never catered to the "pushed over" theory. But, I sure wonder what that owl was saying. Thirty-four wet fifties.
|
|
splitter
Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
|
|
Here is the point i was making. It was 20-25 ft wide area (max), with nothing blocking the path to the cliffs edge. Everywhere else was blocked by bushes and trees. I timed myself several times walking by that spot. Walking, walking fast, running. At the longest (walking) it took five to six (5-6) seconds to walk by that spot. I forget how long it took me to walk the whole trail. But, lets say, if it took one hour (1) hour to walk that whole trail, that would be 3,600 seconds. So, the only spot where you could very likely go over the cliff if it (the slope, not the trail) were slippery/muddy was that one spot. Five to six random seconds out of three thousand six hundred seconds (3,600 divided by 6 = 600) that is a 1 in 600 chance of randomly falling there.
That would be equivalent to putting 599 white pingpong balls and one black one,(600 total) in a large box, room or whatever and blindfolding someone and having them pick one pingpong ball out of the lot and the chance of it being the black one that they picked. Like I said, the trail was flat there, nothing to trip over. And I believe it was somebody who was aware of this spot, and took advantage of it.
We are talking statistics, the likelyhood of someone randomly falling in that exact spot would be 1 in 600 at best. The likelyhood of randomly tripping/falling somewhere else (compared to there) would be, 599 times out of 600 times they would trip somewhere else (not there) which would not have resulted in death (falling off the cliff).
So, JD had to be very unfortunate to just happen to randomly trip there, eh? There was just a 5-6 second window out of a 3,600 second (1 hour) period that was fatale if he tripped, fell, and rolled to his far right side. Just think about it, five to six (5-6) seconds!!
Extremely suspicious, if you ask me. If you had walked that trail, looked at all the possible scenarios, you would have drawn the same conclusion.
Furthermore, I suspect there may be someone or several people that either saw or heard something suspicious, either that night or in the days to follow, that have not said anything about it up until now. If so, you need to come forward and clear your conscience.
|
|
lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
|
|
Where? When? What? Why? And especially WHO?
|
|
Albion
Trad climber
Bristol, UK
|
|
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 05:48pm PT
|
bump
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2012 - 04:48pm PT
|
The title of the book can be Synecdoche, Yosemite.
|
|
Khoi
climber
Vancouver, BC
|
|
I've made contact with a few of those within the drug group. I'm trying to decide if what they have to talk about is pertinent to the story as I'm telling it. For those of you that have been following this thread, what do you think? Any interest in how they got into the business? How they perfected their craft? Where they went and how they moved the dope from Mexico to the US?
I'd be very interested in reading all about that, in addition to all the other information surrounding the plane crash that you have dilligently and painstakingly acquired over the years.
|
|
Albion
Trad climber
Bristol, UK
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 06:50pm PT
|
"The title of the book can be Synecdoche, Yosemite."
Or perhaps "Metonymy, Yosemite"?
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
|
|
|
Dec 19, 2012 - 11:22pm PT
|
^This raises an interesting point. Just what is the title of the book?
About Half Way From Where They Came From To About Half Way To Where They Were Going
|
|
strangeday
Trad climber
Brea ca.
|
|
|
Dec 19, 2012 - 11:24pm PT
|
After almost seven years, I'm assuming there is no book.
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
|
|
|
Dec 19, 2012 - 11:57pm PT
|
Concealed on a shelf.
|
|
AE
climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2012 - 10:46pm PT
|
As I expected, none of my suspicions about this author (?) or project have been proven wrong.
The Mayans even tried, but have apparently failed to end this interminable and abominable thread.
|
|
johntp
Trad climber
socal
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2012 - 11:37pm PT
|
yawn. The guy will never put out a book; if he does, who will buy it.
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2012 - 11:39pm PT
|
i will buy it, well maybe i'll check it out of the libary first
now if he puts this thread in as an appendix i will buy it without checking it out of the library first
ric - are you listening?
|
|
Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2012 - 11:52pm PT
|
Mouse over to "show all", left click
right click, hit print,
got yourself a book, title it whatever you want
|
|
AE
climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Dec 22, 2012 - 10:43am PT
|
Remember Seven Years in Tibet?
Guess the trouble comes from too much cruising time wasted in Southern Cal. Needs to have a focusing element, like Lances cancer, to get 'er done.
It is always fascinating to go away, do real-world stuff for 6 months at a stretch, then check back in here for grins and see that absolutely nothing has changed at all, even the players are here as well.
At least we can assume Ron was out there aligning his sites or tuning his skills, while this has become "the Thread that Will Not Die".
Synopsis for the Uninformed Newbies here (tho' that category seems less and less likely by now):
This guy (go to his first post) started sounding innocently enough, requesting info for a book project he was promising. As it went on, it became more and more apparent that he was either in way over his head, or possibly even that he had other intentions all along. Either way, he alternately guarantees he and the project are for real, rags or rips critical comments, suggestions, and well-meaning advice. Other characters come and go, taking sides, ranting in turn, but aside from a few teasers, little evidence of a real book have ever appeared.
Anyone who has developed an unhealthy personal investment in this site need to get an intervention, asap. Walk away. Trick yourself, if you must, by promising to buy the book - this will spare you any more misplaced anxiety since we all know it will never, ever, come to pass.
I think some casinos or other betting agencies may allow the placement of bets on arcane real-world events, like this. Perhaps we all could see if one of those would bite, at long odds. Climbers en masse could join the 1%.
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
|
|
|
Dec 22, 2012 - 11:07am PT
|
Mouse over to "show all", left click
right click, hit print,
got yourself a book, title it whatever you want
Good idea Jon, but:
It won't have most of ric's research and stylized writings in it.
This has been posted elsewhere, however, it fits nicely here too just change lyrics to writings:
Robert Hunter
The meaning(s), or lack thereof, ascribed by others to an example of lyric work are not part of the work. The interpretations are separate "works". The manner in which an audience receives the work, what they, collectively and individually, make of it, can indeed provide potential data for the allusiveness (referentiality)of future lyrics, gainsaid, but cannot be ascribed as a characteristic of the particular work, per se, with validity without "insider information" which is, in any case, no part of the song. That way lies true nonsense, even unto deconstruction. Yet the little bugger of a jingle persists and seems to move hearts.
Some leave their hearts in San Francisco, others just the lake.
|
|
AE
climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Dec 22, 2012 - 11:26am PT
|
Without having to even read anything, I appear to be dead on - just went back, and find Splitter's still here scrawling the paranoid conspiracy stuff about Jack Dorn's fall. My "informant" described Jack as a weird crazy dude who speed-walked with hands stuffed in his pants pockets, while chanting odd little riffs out loud. Not the best combo for avoiding a nasty fall.
Using remedial math to rationalize the probability of a fall is entirely misguided. First, he and others could have already slipped, dozens, scores of times, but the only slip that mattered was the spot he went over. Like the Poison Spider Trail in Moab, there are actually quite a few spots where a slip would be fatal, but the few victims appear to all gone off where a specific combination of rock-hop and exposure come together. No mystery. Or IS there?!!?? Kyle Copeland once had the Death Bike, that survived the fall that killed its rider, and others then had bad luck on it, and Kyle's DEAD now, of "Cancer" they claim, but I never saw the autopsy, blah blah blah.
Also, as Jack was such a fit strong fast hiker, he increased the likelihood of casual error at the very point in question, while reducing the possibility of any murderer keeping up with him at all, much less timing the push to match the one spot where it would have any effect. One of my own close calls was on a casual downclimb I'd done 50 times before, where I found myself treading air for a few long seconds, until barely managing to keep from tipping over the edge.
Climbers= only ones who could have accomplished such a technical murder; zero motive.
Druggie-mobsters = only ones with presumptive motive; zero ability to even hike the trail most likely much less catch or keep up with Jack, and more than likely to hurl themselves over the edge in trying.
Don't hold your breath too long waiting for those who "saw or heard something suspicious, either that night or in the days to follow, that have not said anything about it up until now." The silence will deafen you.
|
|
splitter
Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
|
|
|
Dec 27, 2012 - 11:09pm PT
|
just because he went 'over' there, doesn't mean that he was incapcitated there (wacked in the back of the head or whatever). that could have taken place anywhere on the trail (but most likely in the general vicinity). so, there is one small point that i'll add to the scenario, but there are many. you & your source ("informant") don't know sh#t AE. (particularly in regards to JD). So take your F'n character assinations elsewhwere d00d!
edit: "zero motive" -- WRONG! Plenty of motive...!
AE - "Don't hold your breath too long waiting for..." -- Dood, I have gotten several emails already. From people who spoke to him on the trail, etc!
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!