Wings of Steel

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donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Jul 28, 2011 - 12:27am PT

I don't know who you are Hawkeye but I know Grossman and he's the real deal, you might want to soften up.

Da_Dweeb

climber

Jul 28, 2011 - 12:34am PT

Hey, Petey!

Mark and Richard are practising Christians. They have NO CHOICE but to forgive when asked.

Well, hopefully I won't open up a whole new can of worms here, but for purposes of clarification, irregardless of being Christian we are not deprived of free will. We could choose not to forgive, either intentionally or unintentionally. We don't stop being human. However, it is something that we value and aspire to do as we believe God wants us to forgive others as He forgives us. I do believe that Mark and Richard would - out of their own free will - happily do so.

I do, likewise, think it would be a freaking stand-up courageous thing for a person to do, and I believe that you're right, it would go a long way toward healing old wounds - even self-inflicted ones - on all sides of the table.

My understanding, though, is that what was actually damaging was not so much the sh#t on ropes incident as the sh#t they got smeared with for the next 30 years. And with that, all I can say is, for me personally I would like for all parties to sit down, hash this thing out in a way that's actually productive or reconciling, and forgive - or at least agree to tolerate - each other. I recognize that this is also totally naive, but I think it would make for a better ending all across the board.

One way or another, this is a part of climbing history. What do we want that history to reflect?

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Jul 28, 2011 - 12:44am PT

Da-Dweeb,

You should have said

....but for purposes of clarification, Irregardless of being Christian doesn't deprive us of free will....

;-)

Captain...or Skully

climber

or some such

Jul 28, 2011 - 12:45am PT

Hehehe. Thanks, Mark. My day is complete.

Da_Dweeb

climber

Jul 28, 2011 - 12:47am PT

Mark-

Well then, by popular demand, see recent edit... =)

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Jul 28, 2011 - 01:04am PT

i appreciate that donini.

which is why he ought to think about his past writings. anyone coming over the internet saying he is going to climb some thing i order to validate past suppositions then not do that climb ought to have the balls to man up.

this is not about climbing. it is about being a man.....

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Jul 28, 2011 - 01:46am PT

come on grossman? mimi?

are you guys all talk and no action?...........

it matters not what you have climbed but how you have treated other climbers.....

thats my quote and i am sticking by it. Mr donini, you are one of the most respectable dudes on here tell me my quote is wrong.

so come on grossman.....WTF? all talk and no action? send mimi after the "doubters"?

your word aint worth sh#t if you wont man up.

Matt

Trad climber

primordial soup

Jul 28, 2011 - 01:46am PT

granted many know i am no fan of PtHP, but you gotta admit it's pretty friggin funny to watch him try to make himself somehow a part of this "ongoing story", now that he has a small vested interest in making it a "story" (i.e. a paid gig writing about it, possibly, if he can get anything good to break loose).

"maysho can you comment?"

"come fwd and apologize, we'll all have beers on the bridge"

"i have mad spies doing dumbass things for no reason"

give it a rest man, you are a spectator, that's it.

as for hawkeye- you are pretty bent on SG, you know what? he has an email address... what makes you think he's reading this thread? he seems to have checked out, IMO.

coz- i agree

this dweeb poster has a one trck mind as a poster on ST:
http://www.supertopo.com/inc/view_forum.php?cur=20&dcid=PT8zOjs5PSc,&ftr=

Studly

Trad climber

Jul 28, 2011 - 01:53am PT

Hawkeye, youre a big mouth faceless troll, name calling someone out on the internet. 100's of photos posted on Supertopo under your handle, but none of them of climbing.
I don't dispute Steve G. should either do the route or not, and he would certainly be much higher in my estimation if he apoligized. I think everyone knows now that he was in the wrong, but maybe himself and Mimi. But your method of calling him out, does it make you any better then the shitters? Or are you just wallowing in it and don't care as long as no one knows who you are? Pretty cowardly dude.

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Jul 28, 2011 - 02:01am PT

Funny how controversial routes roll.

Caldwell or somebody could probably walk up in one day and repeat "Growing Up" on half-dome and have something to say bout it, and that route almost undeniably has some very classic crack climbing on it.

Yet it has no second ascent either. Why? Too long a hike? Nobody wants to be in a position to have to state an unpopular opinion? Fear of being shut down on a route that's respect-challenged.

I dunno, just askin

peace

Karl

Da_Dweeb

climber

Jul 28, 2011 - 02:05am PT

this dweeb poster has a one trck mind as a poster on ST:

Well, yes Matt, that's true.

Matt

Trad climber

primordial soup

Jul 28, 2011 - 02:07am PT

hmmm, long way from the road, karl.
not as many adventure climbers in the valley as you might think.
i know a couple guys thinking of doing it.

also- 'has no reported 2nd' would be more accurate.

like WoS, that route could also see some ascents of the early pitches only, no?

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Jul 28, 2011 - 02:24am PT

studly,

good post. think about it. SG called these guys out not in person, but in a friggin how to book. and SG said he was going to climb the route. Talk is cheap. sorry but in my day, talk meant sumtin. so WTF Grossman?

If SG has the balls then he will apologize. otherwise his word aint worth sh#t.

if he at least comes forward then there is no room for us faceless internet handles to ream on him....

EDIT:
\just saw your post RJ. you are correct in that SG has some reputation to uphold and it is up to him to decide on how that ought to be done. and for your info, i have climbed with the greatest climbers of the day G. (Lowe, House, Webster). BFD. i have free soloed 5.11d. BFD. i have on site free soloed 5.10d...BFD...

none of that sh#t matters...what matters is SG threw these guys (WoS) under the bus then said he would climb the route then did not. i dont give a sh#t how many "buddies" he has on this website. he claimed he was gonna do something and then did not. so where is the man to stand up and explain?

i do not expect wonders. as you mentioned i do not use my real name and therefore my worth is less. fine. but damn it, if i said i was gonna do something then i ought to at least do it or explain why not. i dont use my name for personal reasons...but i grew up with the idea that if you said you were gonna do something hen you bye god did it or at least explained why you did not.

and if i am wrong, if i am being an a-hole, i will have no problem telling the world what an ass i have been,

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Jul 28, 2011 - 02:33am PT

Lovegasoline: The slab I.Q. is thus engaged.

I clearly lacked "slab I.Q." that day at Whitehorse. I pride myself on getting down to the millimeter level when examining options for small marginal pro when free climbing and I couldn't for the life of me see or comprehend anything that qualified as a 'line', let alone a consistently repeatable route. Every ascent from my perspective would likely involve new sequences - but, those guys were slab climbers and they clearly had a sixth sense about it all and could really move over stone I would have considered impossible to free climb.

Also, from a bolting / risk perspective, it would seem to me that pretty much every bolted line, but especially slabs, are by definition contrived from a risk perspective - BY certainly is and I suspect we can safely say the top of Growing Up is as well. How could they not be - someone made a personal / executive / FA decision on the bolt spacing - isn't that 'contrived'?

Matt

Trad climber

primordial soup

Jul 28, 2011 - 02:38am PT

rox- good posts there

if someone (anyone) is going to state that SG SAID HE WAS GOING TO CLIMB WOS, please back that up with a link to the post you are refering to.

taking about climbing a climb and simply saying that you can AND will do so is not the same thing.

if you are telling another to back it up, back it up yourself.

implications do not count, fyi...

Da_Dweeb

climber

Jul 28, 2011 - 02:40am PT

Da-dweeb is clearly a DEVOTED WOS groupie, with his avatar being interested in one thing only, WOS. 48 posts and ALL on various WOS threads.

Accurate, accurate, and accurate.

This also must mean he is likely to be actually a well known poster locally who wants to bag on them without being called out himself..

Inaccurate.

As I have stated previously, I am a former student of Mark Smith's, I don't believe I'm well known anywhere but World of Warcraft, and at present I don't have a desire to bag on anyone. Irregardless, it would appear that I am being called out.

ElCapPirate

Big Wall climber

California

Jul 28, 2011 - 02:54am PT

DMT:

Mimi = Shitter

Swilliam = couldn't go, so smeared some refried beans in the mix... to help out

Third Shitter = aahhhh, I'll keep that one on the dl for now...

Cheers!

Da_Dweeb

climber

Jul 28, 2011 - 02:57am PT

Well, as you yourself seem to admit, you are exercising a compulsion or a fascination with WOS.

True. This may very well be the most legendary thread I have ever seen in any forum, anywhere, and that includes any Warcraft realm forum I've seen. At this point I have a semi-morbid, semi-optimistic fascination and curiosity about how all of this will end.

It just seems kinda strange that with all the various controversies in climbing THIS is what brings your avatar back, over and over. If you are NOT a well know poster under another name, why are you so singl mindedly pursuing this single issue? You would be welcome on other threads.

Well, that's a fair point. Like I said, I have some personal connection as Mark Smith was one of the most positive influences in my life while I was younger, and is still a good friend. At this point what brought me back was my completion of my own copy of the book Wings of Steel, and a curiosity as to how things had progressed in this thread. What keeps me here is a suspenseful curiosity about what Ammon and Kait found in their recently completed Second Ascent, as well as an interest in seeing how that changes the dynamic of interaction between all parties concerned.

Not much else to say, really. If Thorium Brotherhood or Wyrmrest Accord mean anything to you let me know and I'll PM you my character name.