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10b4me
Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
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Dec 19, 2012 - 05:36pm PT
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How was YOUR climbing yesterday 10b4me???... Locker,
what with a bum shoulder, and two arthritic knees, it's a wonder I can climb out of bed
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Dec 19, 2012 - 06:09pm PT
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KSolem - I don't have time now to dig for their source - but they look an awfully lot like the FBI's SHR numbers. You can see the high levels of murder and gun violence in the early 90s and how it's declined.
I would need to look at it more closely - they use the word homicide which includes justifiable and non-justifiable killing. I assume they use homicide = murder.
We are moving in a good direction. Agree entirely! One thing about violence is that no matter what happens, people scream the word "epidemic". Hogwash! If I hear epidemic, I pretty much think that person has no idea what they are talking about. Things are getting better for sure.
A weird thing about violence - a question we are trying to answer is why is it that when overall amounts go down, the relative proportion of things (e.g., injury, reporting to police, firearm use) tends to remain constant. Interesting mystery.
It would be great if we could learn to id the ones that will go off. That is hard work. An extreme but interesting example regarding that work: Ted Bundy. The FBI fought to keep him from getting the death penalty. Why? Because they were studying him and trying to learn more to be better able (able?) to ID serial killers. But no, the public wanted blood and he was killed. No more learning there.
There are criminologists who are trying to work with mass killers too. It's hard to get permission to do so (IRB - prisoners are special subjects), you have to have a cooperative killer (and honest...) who wants to do this (we can't make them), and as you note, there are very few of them. With so few to study, we can't learn much. That we have few is good is good, but it makes learning more difficult.
It is my opinion that laws like limiting magazine capacity or banning military style guns will not change anything. If enacted such a law will not really affect me, so if it is done and it works I'll admit to being wrong.
It would be an interesting study that will take time if policies like that are implemented. It seems to me that making available weapons less lethal will reduce the numbers of bodies. But like you, I don't know for sure and would admit to being wrong if it doesn't work out that way.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 19, 2012 - 06:28pm PT
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Hey Ron does Bob D'a mean you, me, or Gomez?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 19, 2012 - 06:33pm PT
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Yes, you are most evil, Ron A. Being an animal stuffer and all that.
(but at least your aliens arrived laterally)
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Dec 19, 2012 - 06:33pm PT
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...An extreme but interesting example regarding that work: Ted Bundy. The FBI fought to keep him from getting the death penalty. Why? Because they were studying him and trying to learn more to be better able (able?) to ID serial killers. But no, the public wanted blood and he was killed. No more learning there.
Yeah I was pretty appalled with the whole Timothy McVeigh execution for similar reasons. We've got the guy, we have absolute certainty he did it, making him one of the more prolific mass murderers in our history, but he was executed ASAP.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Dec 19, 2012 - 06:34pm PT
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Plus Terrible Twos at Capitol Reef is a really great route.
i thought that was a ruckman route.
Maybe I'm thinking of the one just right of it?
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Dec 19, 2012 - 06:37pm PT
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Yeah I was pretty appalled with the whole Timothy McVeigh execution for similar reasons. We've got the guy, we have absolute certainty he did it, making him one of the more prolific mass murderers in our history, but he was executed ASAP.
Really lots of examples like that and it is unfortunate. One of McVeigh's accomplices (served a little prison time, his wife who also participated did not even stand trial!) got his identity changed when he got out of prison. Can't even find him to learn more about him. A shame.
Eileen Wuornos is another. No doubt she was super nuts, but there was LOTS more to her than that. However, for her, it was an election year so someone had to die. :/
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 19, 2012 - 06:37pm PT
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I put up several routes in Grand Wash but my favorite was Immaculate Seduction in November '87, at the west end.
Be interesting to find out if McVeigh killed more people with an M2 or the truck.
The trigger time in Iraq likely made his heart colder.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Dec 19, 2012 - 06:39pm PT
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I appreciate TRs optimism upthread about curing mental illnesses, but I am not so optimistic about helping the ones who are devoid of any conscience, who are incapable of empathy.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Dec 19, 2012 - 06:40pm PT
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Oh, and Michelle's comment upthread got a huge laugh out of me. Good one!
I appreciate TRs optimism upthread about curing mental illnesses, but I am not so optimistic about helping the ones who are devoid of any conscience, who are incapable of empathy.
Agreed. Not easy issues at all. Mental health. Lethality of weapons. Alcohol. Those without empathy.
And some are moving targets. People aren't necessarily always mentally ill. Or alcoholics.
You would think that we as a country could do better. How to do that is the hard part. It'll be interesting to see what comes of it.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 19, 2012 - 07:10pm PT
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A trace could not be run on it as it had been sold and resold. It was a chinese made AK 47 that more than likely made its way through our southern border, as many of those same weapons do.
I seriously doubt that, more like Long Beach harbor. There are plenty of Chinese pre- and post-ban AKs around.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 19, 2012 - 07:19pm PT
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Crimpergirl: Not easy issues at all. Mental health. Lethality of weapons. Alcohol.
I think the mental health / gun issue can be addressed at least adequately provided resources are put to the task. Alcohol-driven domestic violence is much tougher even if the police are familiar with a family - it's a temporary insanity that's hard to predict.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Dec 19, 2012 - 07:47pm PT
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P. Ron,,,a couple of YOUR routes are on MY personal thingy on Mtn project FYI...?
sounds like you boys might want to discuss that in private?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Dec 19, 2012 - 07:50pm PT
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Really lots of examples like that and it is unfortunate. One of McVeigh's accomplices (served a little prison time, his wife who also participated did not even stand trial!) got his identity changed when he got out of prison. Can't even find him to learn more about him. A shame.
Eileen Wuornos is another. No doubt she was super nuts, but there was LOTS more to her than that. However, for her, it was an election year so someone had to die. :/
I got an earful from a friend from here for suggesting this, but;
Google - Operation Open Eyes
McVeigh was a sleeper, he had to be isolated and put down. Jonestown, Waco, Colombine, and others were too. Still going on.
Your welcome Klimmer. Here's some help...
http://www.rumormillnews.com/operation.htm
part 2 gets creepier than the first part.
And then this re: Colombine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOCVZqVG27w
Have a nice day!
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Dec 19, 2012 - 08:03pm PT
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Hey Bluering, if possible, can you just answer the 'why' question for the links? That is, why is the govt allegedly doing this?
I really am still working so I've not got time to read all of that (especially that wicked font color)! Thanks
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Dec 19, 2012 - 08:10pm PT
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Hey Bluering, if possible, can you just answer the 'why' question for the links? That is, why is the govt allegedly doing this?
To create hysteria amongst the general population who will in turn beg the gov't to remove guns from Americans.
We are the last powerful country that has a very well armed civilian population. That stands in the way of the Globalists. We are also the most free and independent country (because of the 2nd Amendment, in part). Remove the guns and they can dismantle us. The Globalists.
I know, I know...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 19, 2012 - 08:20pm PT
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blue: McVeigh was a sleeper, he had to be isolated and put down. Jonestown, Waco, Colombine, and others were too. Still going on.
Barking dogs is all this is - and more like barking chihuahuas at that.
Funny how these folks think the government is completely incompetent at delivering the most and mundane of services, but eerily capable amazing feats of broad secrecy, seamless interagency coordination, wide-scale social engineering, and technological feats of absolute wonder.
Which is it?
We are also the most free and independent country (because of the 2nd Amendment, in part). Remove the guns and they can dismantle us. The Globalists.
I know, I know...
Jesus, I hope so. I mean can you say completely delusional on both counts.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Dec 19, 2012 - 08:29pm PT
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This friend that worked under Reagan and both Bushes laughs when he hears about conspiracy theories carried out by our government...As he said , our government could never get organized enough to conspire....
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Dec 19, 2012 - 08:34pm PT
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Healyje, there are very competent arms of gov't. But the bureaucrats? I think those are the incompetent whore-ish ones you referred to.
I'm not asking you to believe anything as fact. I'm just offering alternate conclusions, that actually make a whole lot of sense if you read the whole thing.
The dots connect. Maybe too conveniently? Maybe.
Do not underestimate the covert operations wing of our government. That's all I'm saying. And that includes a former Republican President who's name started with G
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