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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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suspecting rrrAdam had his chain jerked by mgmt
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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suspecting rrrAdam had his chain jerked by mgmt
No, he got tired of repeating himself to a brick wall that wont listen.
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WBraun
climber
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No ...
He tried to deceive us with fancy words.
We're too smart for those lab coats ......
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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There is a significant difference between ingesting radiation and standing in the sun or getting an xray.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Here's a story for rrrAdam. I'd like to read his response on this.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-japan-water-20110407,0,2011011.story
...."There is nothing like this, on this scale, that we have ever attempted to do before," says Robert Alvarez, a former assistant secretary of the U.S. Energy Department.
Japanese officials estimate that they already have accumulated about 15 million gallons of highly radioactive water. Hundreds of thousands of gallons are being added every day as the plant's operator, the Tokyo Electric Power Co., continues to feed coolant into the leaky structures.
Ultimately, the high-level radioactive substances in the water will have to be safely stored, processed and solidified, a job that experts say will almost certainly have to be handled on a specially designed industrial complex. The process of cleaning up the water could take many years, even decades, to complete. The cost could run into the tens of billions of dollars.
Victor Gilinsky, a former member of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and longtime advisor on nuclear waste, said the problems facing Japan are greater than even the most highly contaminated nuclear weapons site in the U.S., the Hanford Nuclear Reservation in Washington state.....
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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it looks like rrrAdam went back and deleted some of his posts on this thread
(posted at 12:26...looks like the ST clock is off)
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I agree Karl; peace. I like your answers, reasonable and calm as always. I appreciate your views even when I might not (yet) agree with them.
I always appreciate you too Dingus. So glad you're here and you look pretty hot in your avatar picture too!
;-)
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Speaking of human folly and over reliance on technology, I came across a fascinating article today on the existence of large upright stones, some as much as 600 years old, all up and down the east coast of Japan. Their purpose is to warn of tsunami and not to build in low areas.
One is placed on a hillside with the warning that people should not build below that line as a tsunami came that high. In fact it marks pretty much where the current waters reached. The people of one little village only heeded the warning and built their houses on the hill above the stone. School children in that area are taught about the stones so they are widespread knowledge in the region.
However, since land is scarce in Japan, the temptation to build on the flat land next to the water is great and people were lulled into a false sense of safety by 35 foot tsunami walls. Sadly, most of the schools where information on the stones is taught were located on the flat lands next to the sea and were among the places devastated.
One can of course wonder if these tablets are so well known, how it is a past president of Tepco could say that the threat from a tsunami never entered management's mind during his tenure there?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110406/ap_on_re_as/as_japan_earthquake_warnings_in_stone
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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it looks like rrrAdam went back and deleted some of his posts on this thread
Ironic, because it seems TEPCO has deleted public data from it's website that the Fairwinds guy used as evidence that a re-criticality was occurring at the plant.
For details, hear this update
http://vimeo.com/22062314
Natually, the NRC and Nuclear industry understands that public perception of this event, however it turns out, will deeply affect if nuclear is an accepted energy source in the foreseeable future. Honesty and transparency can not be expected from vested interest whose whole existence is at state. Listen to the hypocrisy identified in the minute of the update posted, behind closed doors they call it perhaps the worst disaster of our times, in public...Happy Talk
Peace
Karl
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Here's a story for rrrAdam. I'd like to read his response on this.
...."There is nothing like this, on this scale, that we have ever attempted to do before," says Robert Alvarez, a former assistant secretary of the U.S. Energy Department.
Japanese officials estimate that they already have accumulated about 15 million gallons of highly radioactive water. Hundreds of thousands of gallons are being added every day as the plant's operator, the Tokyo Electric Power Co., continues to feed coolant into the leaky structures.
Ultimately, the high-level radioactive substances in the water will have to be safely stored, processed and solidified, a job that experts say will almost certainly have to be handled on a specially designed industrial complex. The process of cleaning up the water could take many years, even decades, to complete. The cost could run into the tens of billions of dollars.
Victor Gilinsky, a former member of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and longtime advisor on nuclear waste, said the problems facing Japan are greater than even the most highly contaminated nuclear weapons site in the U.S., the Hanford Nuclear Reservation in Washington state.....
Kunlan, I work on cleaning up the Hanford waste in Washington State. I don't believe that what Mr. Galinsky said was totally accurate and it is difficult to take these soundbite quotes from the press and make sense of them. What he must be referring to in bold above is the fact that the Japanese incident may not have adequate containment for all its wastewater. I have mentioned on this thread probably a couple weeks ago about looking for tanks and then last week about the need for some type of treatment for this waste. I assure you that Hanford's 53 million gallons is much worse in terms of chemistry. Hanfords waste was derived by the production of plutonium for weapons and a variety of chemical processes (Google PUREX).
I also underlined a quote above. The word "highly" is very subjective. I have stated on this thread before (and so have others), the composition of the water must be published. The worst element that I have seen reported in the water is Cesium and that is bad, but what levels of Cesium?
I am in no way downplaying the significance of this event in terms of risk to human health and the environment. But words like high, low, medium don't say a whole lot and do not lead to a scientific understanding of the magnitude of the problem.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Thanks Riley, just doin my thing.
If you want to see what is in the Hanford tanks, grab a periodic table. We have everything on it and probably some isotopes not found in many other places. The Japanese waste at least is dervied by one kind of reactor and tow types (I think) of fuel). Hanford waste came from multiple sources, vintages of reactors, and multiple different chemical processed used to seperate out the weapons grade stuff from all the other nastiness.
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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youtube of a guy with a Geiger counter showing us his personal
collection of radioactive sources. Handling them with bare hands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PkV7BJOhp4&NR=1
Never thought to look but there are a lot of youtubes of ordinary stuff around the home that make a Geiger counter click.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I am in no way downplaying the significance of this event in terms of risk to human health and the environment. But words like high, low, medium don't say a whole lot and do not lead to a scientific understanding of the magnitude of the problem.""
Particularly when the incident is still fully in progress and they pump amazing amounts of water into the buildings everyday. No telling what will have to be dealt with when the smoke clears
Peace
karl
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Karl,
thats why I posted several days ago about the treatment. If the Japanese are thinking clearly, they would be looking at the water chemistry/treatment, and attempt to perform some type of treatment on this stuff ASAP. If they spend $1 Billion right now, to reduce the volume of contaminated water by say 90%, I predict that they will save tenfold and or lessen that release of contamination into the environment. These costs may sound high, trust me they are not.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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It FUBAR for sure. No matter how much they are willing to spend, there's the issue of how much they can get started asap as they're pouring all this water in but where can it go? Where can they store it all while getting treatment up and running, and how long before they can get treatment up and running.
This must all be complicated by the hot site with mangled plumbing. Who knows how to get all this going?
Nightmare
Peace
karl
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