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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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John M...
Appears most here do not want to disrupt the flow of natural run off. They don't want the agi coalition to drain any more ground water. BUT, they all want their fresh cake totally uninterrupted from coming to their dinner plates.
So, what is the ultimate answer, John M.
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John M
climber
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BUT, they all want their fresh cake totally uninterrupted from coming to their dinner plates.
well, I know people who have quit eating beef because it is a resource hog. So I wouldn't say everyone wants their cake and to be able to eat it too. I have lived for years using less water then most, and I bet many on this forum have too. We don't live in the days anymore where everyone can do whatever they want wherever they want. We have to be more conscious of how our actions affect everyone else. If everyone can't raise their consciousness, then we have to legislate actions. That means such things as devising a way to regulate ground water use, so that we don't destroy the aquifer. What exactly those rules should be, I don't' know. I'm not an expert.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Unfortunately YOU John M and many here are the MINORITY when it comes to having your cake uninterrupted.
The MAJORITY don't care and want it all NOW.
Oh yeah, have you ceased buying and eating fresh fruits and veggies from your local store, John M? If NOT, you are just as much a part of the problem as all others that want that cake, NOW!
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John M
climber
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Oh yeah, have you ceased buying and eating fresh fruits and veggies from your local store, John M? If NOT, you are just as much a part of the problem as all others that want that cake, NOW!
Chief, I stopped eating. LOL..
yep.. I consume water. Oh the horror..
…
On a more serious note, I have never said one should not consume any water. But it is important what choices you make. It is again, not a black and white issue. So no.. I am not as big a problem as the person who has a huge lawn.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Plenty of water in my neck of the sage brush. And the weather, well, appears it's going to be a tad bit wetter than normal the next six or so months. Hope ya'll on the westside got some... Dingy's.
Yesterday...
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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The ground under it has been sucked too dry.
Got lots of Mud around here too.... deep deep mud. Maybe it's time ya'll think about moving to wetter "Higher" ground.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Dingus...The Chief might be moving ...? The CC+Rs are getting to him...Maybe he will make you a good- guy deal on the White Mt. Estates compound..? Make sure the disclaimer includes the Claymore sites...
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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RJ... "Might"??
More like, "IS". Going North, way way way North. Where just about every household owns a gun or two or three and there's plenty of water. Lots of water.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Nov 20, 2015 - 07:25am PT
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November 19, 2015
Now, as of Nov. 19, snow-water content in parts of the Sierra Nevada is well over 200 percent above average, even though it is still early in the season.
But that won't mean immediate or dramatic impact on drought conditions. More than 44 percent of the state remains under exceptional drought, the U.S. Drought Monitor's most severe category. The figure remains unchanged from last week's report.
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/California-Drought-Sierra-Nevada-Snowpack-Water-Snow-346746612.html
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Nov 20, 2015 - 11:00am PT
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There is a case to be made that the most important aquifer in the world is the Ogallala Aquifer. It is an alluvial and Aeolian deposit from the eroding Rocky Montains, hundreds of feet thick in some places. It runs from South Dakota to west Texas, and is responsible for much of America's grain, which is so plentiful that farmers are heavily subsidized by the federal government. They are nigh all hardcore right wingers, listening to Rush Limbaugh while in their air conditioned farm machinery. On the other hand, they love that CRP program, that PAYS them NOT to farm certain land, a program going back to the days when soil management was poor. That, and they all seem to have a local restaurant where they gather every morning when crops are growing and little is to be done. Those guys have a lot of free time in some areas. I've been dealing with them for most of my life. They love it when you hit oil or gas beneath their land. You better treat them well, because if you don't, it gets around, and they become harder to deal with. So you can't screw up or be a problem with them.
There are low profile oil pumping units that are low enough to not bother the irrigation line as it goes around. I might have a picture of one. One of the main fuels to run the irrigation pumps is natural gas. The huge Hugoton Gas Field runs from SW Kansas to the Northern Texas Panhandle.
If you ever fly east-west and see those endless circles of center-pivot irrigation east of the Rockies, then you've seen the Ogallala. Remember, 70% of fresh water goes to agriculture. When the aquifer is depleted, which it will be, there will be no more water, and they are out of business, and U.S. grain exports, some of it in humanitarian aid, will suffer. The soil is great in the Great Plains. It is just too dry for corn. You need to irrigate the heck out of corn, but per-acre, it is worth far more than wheat.
The Ogallala is really thick. Hundreds of feet of highly porous gravel which contains zillions of acre feet of the sweetest, cleanest, water anywhere. The problem is that it recharges slowly. So it is basically a non-renewable resource. There are many places where you could originally hit the water table at less than 50 feet. Now, a lot of places have been drawn down to a depth of 250-300 feet in areas like the northern Texas Panhandle and SW Kansas. Farming covers so much land that a weed is rare, much less a tree.
They grow corn in arid areas. Corn needs a lot of water. It transpires heavily, sending water into the atmosphere. Wheat is a more natural crop. It is considered a dry land crop, and needs much less water. The trouble with that is that corn makes a lot more money than wheat does. Whatever the crop, the U.S. helps to feed the world from that deposit of groundwater.
There are attempts to slow the draining of the aquifer, but it is shrinking as a simple matter of arithmetic. It has a way left to go, but the power needed to lift it that much takes a lot of energy. They have huge utility bills.
Anyway, it will be empty before long, and that land will revert to arid grassland, and wheat will be the only crop. I never could understand why the government pays farmers in the east not to grow corn, while at the same time growing it far west of its natural range.
Groundwater is a great resource, but it needs to me managed properly. I've heard that some of the California aquifers are rapidly depleting, and with the drought, more and more are forced into using groundwater.
The whole Keystone Pipeline was fought, in part, as being dangerous to the aquifer. Studies have shown this to be incorrect. Spills are local and quickly found and repaired. The area is already criss-crossed with oil and gas transmission lines. It poses no real damage to the Aquifer.
The only argument with any basis is that the tar sands "oil" is very energy intensive, and gives off way more greenhouse gasses than conventional oil and gas fields. Hell, we drill in those irrigated places like crazy. I have yet to meet a farmer who doesn't yearn for oil to be found on his land if he also owns the minerals, and in those areas, the farmer usually does.
There are a lot of oil rich farmers who farm damn near as a form of recreation. Families who own vast farmland in oil areas are very oil savvy and wealthy.
Here is a picture of a low profile pumping unit. They are low enough that the irrigation arm goes righ over it without a hitch. Those guys demand those in their leases, and even if they don't, it is the only way to pump oil from center pivot areas. I'm drilling in some right now.
The coverage and thickness of the Ogallala Aquifer:
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Nov 20, 2015 - 11:07am PT
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Chief, I assume that you know the history of the Owens Valley. It used to be covered with farms and orchards. Then Los Angeles, in a very cutthroat fashion, bought most of the Owens Valley and its water rights.
Most of that runoff heads down to the Canal at the base of the mountains and heads straight for L.A.
I wish that L.A. would at least give up some surface rights. There is a dearth of private land there, so it is an expensive place to live.
I loved my time living there, though. Joe Faint taught me how to fly fish on my winter days off from cat driving at Mammoth.
Los Angeles knew from the beginning that they had a water problem. So they nigh stole the Owens Valley: the runoff from the east side of the Sierra. Sure, there are little creeks in town and the River is there, but it is beneath a dam. It isn't fully natural anymore, including the invasive Tamarisk, or Salt Cedar, which is not a native plant. It lines creeks and rivers throughout the west. Hell, they are a huge problem in Oklahoma. I can see it in your pictures of the Owens River.
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Gary
Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
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Nov 20, 2015 - 01:34pm PT
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Base, did LA steal the water? I thought they purchased the water rights.
Nice post on the aquifer.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Nov 20, 2015 - 02:01pm PT
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Base, did LA steal the water? I thought they purchased the water rights.
They stole it fair-and-square.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Nov 20, 2015 - 02:06pm PT
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I agree it is pretty dumb to use the Ogallala to irrigate corn while you are paying other farmers not to grow it.
I don't know how profitable it will be to grow wheat. There may be enough rain to grow it in an average year, but, like the Sierra, you don't get average years. Might have made more sense to have the Ogallala available to "top up" the wheat crop in dry years. But with the groundwater already so low, I wouldn't suppose it would be economical to pump the water that's left for wheat.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 23, 2015 - 09:21pm PT
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http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/precipapp/get5SIPrecipStaticIndex.action
I've closely followed the snowpack for decades, and I am surprised by what is happening---which is not much.
Remember that this is the biggest El Nino ever.
However, this is shaping up to be simply an average year.
How can I say that, this early?
If you look at the records of very big snow years, without exception, they start off with huge snow early. We are approaching Thanksgiving, with no huge storms in sight.
I think this is very worrisome for water accumulation in the snowpack.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Nov 24, 2015 - 11:15am PT
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hey there say, ken m... i am curious about something??
and i just saw your share on the snow pack...
well, two of the 'affects of el nin~o maps' that i saw showed:
which areas of the states might turn out to be warmer...
(by 50-70%)... (the top third, across the states, mainly,
though part of the upper east coast, was not included, i think?)
and which will be about the same...
(this was middle third, or so, of the state-map)...
and which would be colder..
(by 40%) (these are the guesses) ...
(this being mainly most all of texas, and the
states bordering it, and a few to the upper east)...
well, the interesting thing, was this:
california, was all marked as the--50 percent warmer...
so, IS this WHY the snow packs, are 'doing what you mentioned'
so far, this year...
will this keep it more rain, perhaps, and less snow...
i am just curious...
and, the 'story' seems to be, due to the el nin~o being
more north, on the coast, than being south (as they 'say' it
is not the 'usual')...
i was just trying to understand this all a bit,
as, it seems so far, that WINTER out here, is very mild...
so i am wondering if this is mainly
going to FOLLOW as true...
the snow that just went through here, would have
left up a foot of snow, all over, but it wet-out and just
dusted, drizzled and melted before any accumulated...
*me, though, was glad, as, the LAST two winters,
were BOTH worse than the years before...
thanks, so much ken m... or any of you
folks that understand weather patterns, etc...
this has me thinking on this, too, due to having SO
many friends, in quite a few n, s, e, and western states,
all getting 'different' stuff than usual 'predicted'...
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