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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Dec 19, 2012 - 12:01pm PT
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So Ron, what you are say is... you watch news every night, probably Faux News, and the information presented there doesn't seem to reflect the FBI stats. From another thread you say shooting deaths are sooo prevalent they don't even report them anymore (yet you still seem to know they occur on a nightly basis) but they still report enough that the FBI stats must be questionable?
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Dec 19, 2012 - 12:03pm PT
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Ron watches the news, but then he tells us about the yahoo's next door to him that required him to get out his gun.
I feel much safer in the bay area, then living next to biker trash.
It's like everyone thought SF was burning down in the 89 quake because TV was focused a few houses.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Dec 19, 2012 - 12:06pm PT
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Whatever, you had to get out your gun
I don't need a gun, don't know anyone with a gun, never even had to call the cops, and I don't live in an upscale area. Your perceptions are heavily skewed by your biases.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Dec 19, 2012 - 12:09pm PT
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You feel you have to cap on people you feel superior to?
No, I feel I have to "cap on" people who are idiots and insist on typing idiotic things with the kind of confidence only idiots can possess.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Dec 19, 2012 - 12:11pm PT
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Not fortunate, Ron, just connected to reality.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Dec 19, 2012 - 12:12pm PT
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that doesnt strike me as an exception - that strikes me as proving the point - under extreme short term stress - loss of job - guns kill via suicide. Blaming guns for suicides seems odd when US suicide rate is significantly lower than in the gun-free paradise of Japan (and lots of other places--US does not have a high suicide rate compared to world at large).
The fact that US has a suicide rate almost identical to Canada suggests that prevalence of guns has little to do with suicide rate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
It does make sense that when guns are available, they'll be used by people who want to commit suicide instead of other means. No one disputes that guns provide very effective means to kill people.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Dec 19, 2012 - 12:18pm PT
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The Japanese are not pussies, they do it with honor. They have been doing seppuku for centuries. Uhmerikuhns are way too pussy for that, they need a fast death to end their fast food quickimart life.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Dec 19, 2012 - 12:19pm PT
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Ron, we live different lives. How can you possibly compare? You don't know my life story and I don't blab about my life on internet forums like you.
What an idiot.
Yeah, I've never killed someone. Does that make you a patriot and me not?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dec 19, 2012 - 12:23pm PT
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Another example:
How could Ron NOT honestly fear south of the US border "illegals"?
He lives in a sh#t hole part of the country overridden with illegals in gangs.
He has to be armed when he goes outside, I would be too if I lived where he does.
His perceptions are based on his life experiences of living close to this crap, and so no one should be surprised by his obvious biases. You would be too.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Dec 19, 2012 - 12:25pm PT
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wow, this thread has it all...i knew tom cochrane had some issues but seriously? stick to climbing stories tom, those are great and i admire all that you have done in that sport. but your altered reality is just that.
and riley, good job on the westboro haters. thats the best thing in this thread.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dec 19, 2012 - 12:50pm PT
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If it were illegal russians and gangs here, i would be focused on them..
I honestly believe you when you say that
I am sorry you live in such a shithole part of America
I wish you could find the means to get out of there and move someplace decent.
Surely you could continue your business just about anywhere.....I guess, why not?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Dec 19, 2012 - 12:58pm PT
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Ronny, why no contempt for the legal honkies who pull the same sh#t? And don't pretend they don't, because you know damn well they do.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Dec 19, 2012 - 12:59pm PT
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I could go on...
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Dec 19, 2012 - 01:03pm PT
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Take my NEIGHBORS for example. I nail em as they come. Color be dammed.
So Ron are you an equal opportunity "Nailer"?
More importantly
i'm concerned about how this shooting will affect stigmas against people who struggle with mental illness, and how those stigmas will affect people who would benefit from seeking treatment for mental health issues. when treatment is effective, people can recover totally, or manage very well.
Yeah! Thank you tr it needed to be said.
Those who rabidly argue "don't blame the GUN" have no problem blaming "sex and drugs and rock and roll".
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Dec 19, 2012 - 01:04pm PT
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I don't get why people are saying guns are the cause of suicide.
If people are going to kill themselves, they're gonna do it the least painful, quickest way. Gun's are the tool for that.
If you break a light bulb and need to remove it from the socket, you use a potato. If you don't have one, you use your hand.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Dec 19, 2012 - 01:07pm PT
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^^^ Or turn off the switch and/or breaker first like any sentient being would.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Dec 19, 2012 - 01:07pm PT
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P Ron - I'll look at this later. Pummeled today with five book chapters due to publisher and some numbers due to DOJ. Stressed!!!
I do have a question about FBI stats Crimpie.
I get the bay area news, and nightly there are deaths and shootings there- and most seem to be in gangland. How do they attribute shootings to gangs exactly? The figures don't seem realistic in the least to me.
Ron - nice question which brings up a few thoughts. First, the police would need to record a killing as gang violence. To the extent they get that right, the numbers will be correct. I have published research on gang violence and the most difficult part of that type of research is defining what a gang or gangster is. Is gang violence violence that happens when acting as a gang? Or does it include when an active gang member engages in intimate violence which is not gang-related. Some gang members "look" like gang members. Others do not. Measurement isn't perfect and it is very difficult. So they may be under-counted. Or in some ways over-counted. Not easy to measure this stuff.
And watching tv...there is a large body of literature that demonstrates that watching the news - especially local news - will increase significantly a persons fear of crime. Fear of crime/victimization generally has very little to do with risk of victimization. Plus, the media - news included - has the purpose of delivering viewers to advertisers. And they do this effectively don't they! What you see on the news about violence relates to what we call the "backwards law". That is, the more you see it on they news, the less common that event likely is. You see murders? They are the least common form of violence out there! You see stranger murders of females? RARE (most females are killed by someone they know; males are 50/50 in terms of the offender being stranger or known). You see terrorist attack? Rare. You don't see the everyday common things. That would not be effective at delivering viewers to advertisers as the public is bored by that. Another young black male shot and killed? No one notices.
Back to work for me.
Oh, one last thing... the comments about individuals who works with these data, and data like them, are disheartening. The researcher who does something with ill intent is very rare (in fact, note how someone like Lott who did some stupid unethical maneuvers was mentioned here - rare - backwards law, no?). The vast, vast majority of folks who work in the field actually care about doing as good a job as humanly possible. Keep that in mind.
Now, back to being super f*#king stressed.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 19, 2012 - 01:09pm PT
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I purchased a gun for a S African freind of mine who had recieved a degree in AG here (1979) but was scared to death he wouldnt make it from the airport to his village as educated blacks then were targets in Afrcia.
And you wonder who is circumventing firearms laws, committing crimes by making "straw purchases"?
You have to wonder what "fast and furious" illegal use this gun was put to, and who it killed, purchased by a federal police officer for the purpose of giving to someone not eligible to purchase one.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Dec 19, 2012 - 01:10pm PT
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Don't get stressed Crimps reload.
Oh wait I meant reFresh.
KenM good one. Regarding Rong me thinks he doth protest too much.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Dec 19, 2012 - 01:13pm PT
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1. The historical trajectory of violence affects not only how life is lived but how it is understood.
2. What could be more fundamental to our sense of meaning and purpose than a conception of whether the strivings of the human race over long stretches of time have left us better or worse off?
3. How, in particular, are we to make sense of modernity—of the erosion of family, tribe, tradition, and religion by the forces of individualism, cosmopolitanism, reason, and science?
4. So much depends on how we understand the legacy of this transition: whether we see our world as a nightmare of crime, terrorism, genocide, and war, or as a period that, by the standards of history, is blessed by unprecedented levels of peaceful coexistence."
Source: Steven Pinker, The Better Angels of Our Nature; highly recommended
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