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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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"In the whole history of nuclear plants there have been three core melt downs... one in France, one in the Ukraine, and one in Pennsylvania.”
The SL-1 Army reactor west of Idaho Falls, ID went into meltdown after an operator caused criticality in Jan of 1961. Three were killed by the steam explosion or possibly by the neutron flux.
Substantially smaller than Chernobyl and Three Mile Island reactors…it was a prototype power reactor for Army bases in the arctic.
Historically, not one of the more significant reactor accidents…but certainly not a red herring.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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The western "work and spend consumer society" party is over.... Your and my offspring and loved ones will suffer. Wars for "safe energy" will escalate. The "haves" will kill the "have-nots" with increasing abandon, to try to hang on to yesterday's dream. Its a downward spiral from here on out.
Seems about right.
I think something beautiful may be blossoming in this world. It's just that this blossoming brings tremendous growing pains with it.
The bug wraps itself in it's own funk, sleeps for a few months and comes out after an epic struggle with wet wings but eventually flies away beautiful.
Nicely put.
.....
Growing pains with every turn of the wheel of life. Sad, yes. But there was no other way for the Great Mother to do it.
In THAT understanding one can take refuge, sanctuary.
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WBraun
climber
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All us rascals will be reborn over and over to suffer this sh'it!
There's no escape.
Unless .......
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Yes.
It's simply called... ecological savvy.
Ecological savvy in how the world works and how life works.
Goodnight, mortals.
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WBraun
climber
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Yeah it's all over.
We fuked up the world.
Sorry kids, it's all our fault.
It happen the minute we put on the lab coat.
But it was grand while it lasted.
Rolls eyes .....
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Just trying to call the spades spades as there's a lot of happy talk with little basis going on via the vested interests.
Check out this recent video where a former nuke executive analyzes images of what's happening with one spent fuel pool. The fuel is exposed completely.
http://vimeo.com/21789121
The longer we get happy talk that has no chance of coming true, the longer we don't truly prepare and plan based on reality
More recently, evidence that Unit one has periodic criticality chain reactions ongoing
http://vimeo.com/21881702
peace
Karl
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Yeah it's all over.
whats all over, exactly? The world will move on and while these events are serious, they will not change much in the long run. You're making sensationalistic exaggerations based on your unique view of reality, which is extremely short sighted. Yet that doesn't stop you from making stupid assertions.
and you live in a world created by "lab coats" so its pretty hypocritical to condemn them while enjoying the world and its conveniences. Do you use lightbulbs? ride in airplanes? ever driven a car?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Isn'r rhar like saying if you've ever clipped a bolt, it's hypocritical to speak out on any issue of climbing ethics?
Peace
Karl
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Bargainhunter
climber
Central California
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Amazing vimeo videos of Arnie Gundersen. Thanks Karl.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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This happy talk is a figment of your imagination. There are however, people not quite ready to lay down and die. People who maintain optimism in the face of adversity. Don't shoot them for their positive attitudes.
DMT
Nuclear happy talk is well documented and already refuted. I've been reading up on Chernobyl and the happy talk that the people involved got. Evacuated residents were told they would come back in three days, they never came back.
When people are continually reassured "This level of contamination poses no immediate threat to human health" the happy talkers know that it will be received as "Don't worry, it's cool" when the real literal meaning is often "It takes years to develop cancer"
In Belarus and the Ukraine, the thyroid cancer spikes came many years later but in mass. So many years later, the happy talk government was able to deny benefits to affected people because how can you prove it, so far down the line, even if the cancer spikes happen to coincidence with the fallout zones rather well.
So why shoot the messenger? If a climber radios down from 28,000 feet that a storm in coming in in 4 hours, that he has no Oxygen and lost his crampons, we don't say, not to worry, he is in fine health and in no immediate danger. We assess if something can be done and what the risks of action and inaction are.
Peace
Karl
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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It's only natural for the geriatric group - the graybeards - the 50 and 60 somethings - to be more philosophic if not pessimistic about the ways of the world, the human condition, and all of life's predicaments they perceive. -For their days are almost up and they're acutely aware of it. Also they're acutely aware how the party - the Great Circle of Life - is going to go on without them. Sucky I know.
You've noticed, kids are hardly bothered by such concerns. All that matters to them is sex and adventure and sex and adventure and sex... beyond the fact that their carousel light is not flashing red. -Like that old guy's at supertopo. ;)
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Isn'r rhar like saying if you've ever clipped a bolt, it's hypocritical to speak out on any issue of climbing ethics?
Great idea. Anyone who has ever clipped a bolt is not allowed to complain, chop, or otherwise denigrate any bolt.
I like it.
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WBraun
climber
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Your days are not up HFCS.
99.9999999999% of everyone will be reborn continually into this sh'it!
I don't care what you think but I guarantee you will be reborn in your next life also into this sh'it.
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WBraun
climber
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Locker
You're a pretty decent good human being and it's a good bet you'll come back in a human body.
But it all depends on the consciousness one develops in this life and karma .....
But the goal is not to come back into the material world.
Escape .....
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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You will never transcend as long as you think of it as "escaping". Escaping implies forced suffering. You weren't forced to come here. Your higher self chose to come here. The way out is to figure out why and what is to be gained. Then seek that. Trying to escape means you are trying to override what your higher self wants for you.
Personally, I think my higher self is an idiot for choosing to come here and I would like to kick my higher self's ass. Then send it down here for a weekend cruise.
But that thinking is why I am doomed. haha.. oh well.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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From NHK:
March 11 quake moves seabed 24 meters off Miyagi
The Japan Coast Guard says the seabed right above the seismic focus of the powerful earthquake on March 11th moved 24 meters to the east off Miyagi Prefecture in northeastern Japan.
After the magnitude 9.0 quake, the coast guard analyzed data on its benchmarks, which had been set on the seabed at a depth of more than 1,000 meters.
They found that one benchmark 120 kilometers east of the Oshika peninsula had moved about 24 meters to the east-southeast and rose 3 meters.
Another point 70 kilometers east of the peninsula was found to have moved 15 meters east-southeast and sank 60 centimeters.
The same point moved 10 centimeters after a magnitude 7.2 earthquake 6 years ago.
But they say such a large shift caused by the latest earthquake is unprecedented.
The coast guard will report its findings to a government panel on earthquake research next week in hopes that the data will help clarify the movement of the fault that caused the March 11th earthquake.
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/06_31.html
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Also from NHK:
US marines finish clean-up on remote island
US Marines finished clearing debris on a remote Japanese island off disaster-hit Miyagi prefecture on Wednesday.
The operation involving about 300 marines and heavy construction machinery started last Friday on Oshima Island. The March 11th tsunami left huge amounts of debris in its wake, including ships.
The Marines say they cleared about 2,000 tons of debris in 5 days.
On Wednesday, marine officers visited islanders and reported that the clean-up has finished. They offered encouragement to residents, and said they believe the Tohoku region will recover from the great damage.
Islanders said they are grateful to the marines for coming to help them when they are helpless in the aftermath of the unprecedented disaster.
The residents gave the marines a painting that showed the island before the disaster, as a token of gratitude.
US forces plan to begin work to survey whether ships and other debris are submerged in the seas surrounding the island.
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/06_26.html
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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All these recent posts alluding to "happy talk" reminded me of Sam Harris. He mentioned "happy talk" recently in a discussion on the afterlife.
Perhaps he had Karl or Werner in mind when he said this:
"I think, therefore, that this concept of the afterlife really functions as a substitute for wisdom. For really absorbing our predicament. Which is that everyone is going to die. There are circumstances that are catastrophically unfair, evil sometimes wins, and injustice sometimes wins. The only justice we're going to find in this world is the justice we make, and I think we have an ethical responsibility to absorb this really down to the soles of our feet. This notion of afterlife and the "happy talk" about how it's all going to work out and how it's all part of God's plan is a way of shirking that responsibility. So that's where I am."
Sam Harris
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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So UC Berkeley has monitored rainwater 181 times the drinking water standard in Iodine.
http://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-rainwater-radiation-181-times-above-us-drinking-water-standard-2011-4
But at the UC Berkeley site, here
http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/RainWaterSampling
They make a point of downplaying any risk of that radiation by saying this:
"For example, in the rain water we collected in 18 hours between March 17 and March 18 we observe an activity of the isotope of I-131 (Iodine-131) of 4.26 Bq/l. At this level, you would need to drink 632 liters of this rain water to obtain the same radiation effects you obtain on a round-trip flight between San Francisco and Washington D.C. Therefore, the increase in radiation levels in the rain water due to the events in Japan remain extremely small."
But this seem like a very disingenuous comparison, particularly coming from nuclear engineers who hopefully know there's a huge difference between ingesting ionizing radiation that will be stored in a gland, and external sources. as explained here:
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-radiation-and-contamination-is-like-comparing-apples-and-oranges-2011-4
"Why does it make no sense to compare in-flight radiation exposure and ingesting radioactive isotopes? It is wrong to compare internal emitters with external emitters (i.e, ingesting radioactive isotopes versus in-flight exposure or background radiation). It is like comparing warming oneself near a fire versus eating a red hot coal....
Radiation and contamination are not the same thing. Taking a flight will expose one to cosmic radiation not radioactive contamination. When radioactive isotopes enter into water, crops, milk that leads to radioactive contamination. Contamination occurs when material that contains radioactive isotopes is no longer contained. It is important to remember that radiation cannot spread or get "in" or "on" people; rather it is radioactive contamination that can do precisely that. Here lies the essential difference between the two.......
Ionising Radiation
If humans ingest radioactive elements, those "hot coals" stay with us. Particularly nasty radioactive elements include radioactive iodine. Radioactive iodine is also readily absorbed by the body and becomes incorporated within it, and is therefore difficult to eliminate from the body. The radiation it emits can cause cancer over a period of time.
Fast moving photons (gamma rays), electrons (beta rays) and helium nuclei (alpha particles) can crash into other molecules and change their structure. Beta particles may ionise molecules they hit, damaging DNA in cells, and disrupting their normal activities. If this happens to a DNA molecule, the damage is caused to the genetic information, and this may turn the cell cancerous.
Ionising radiation has the power to break molecular bonds in living tissue causing damage, even in small doses, it can cause cancer in humans and other living beings"
Now cows consume contaminated water and grass and concentrate it in the milk and we drink it. Perhaps it's all still safe. I'm still drinking the milk. But note that hardly any news sources carried this story. How are we going to gauge when there's a problem if the happy talkers don't raise any flags but rather use false comparisons to downplay the risk?
After all, federal drinking water standard may be low but there has to be some rational with them and 181 times the standard seems significant? If that is comparable to only 1/632 of the dose we get flying across the country, maybe planes need radiation shielding eh?
Peace
Karl
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