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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 05:23pm PT
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Thanks Dr. F!
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 05:23pm PT
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Go!
Perhaps you were implying that if christianity et.el., continued unchecked, some lack of desire or commitment to the betterment of humanity would slowly deteriorate progress....a sort of apathy towards science, etc,?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Am I getting any closer???
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 22, 2009 - 05:26pm PT
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I would not insult the christians by calling Bush 2 one. Whatever he desperetly claims
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 05:40pm PT
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Wes!
I was talking about spiritual darkness!!!
Wickedness in the heavenly realm!!!
And Eternity!!!
Sure there is obviously good and evil, right and wrong, present here!!!
But can you do something evil...say rape, than murder a child. And call it good and evil co-existing in the same act of that one individual??
Or can you go into a dark closet and turn on bright light and have it both dark and light at the same co exiating moment in time?? I think not!!!
We have a choice that will be ultimately eternal!! Will it be light or darkness???
The nice thing about it is we have that choice!!!
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 05:47pm PT
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So what about the people who don't learn about that choice: because they either never heard about Jesus, they were too feeble minded to understand, or the person telling them about it does a crummy job.
They are supposedly his children. But he damns those poor souls anyway?
Sounds like a real dick, a child abuser by our standards.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Oct 22, 2009 - 05:54pm PT
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But can you do something evil...say rape, than murder a child
I'd planned on not adding anything more to this thread, but the above comment reminds me that there is something that has always bothered me that maybe one of you religious folks can help me with.
Think about your loving god. Your loving, all-powerful, creator of the universe god. Now think about that child being tortured. Raped. Tortured some more. And finally killed. Now multiply that by the hundreds of thousands of helpless children (and adults) that are tortured and murdered all over the world all the time.
I have always had trouble holding those two thoughts at the same time. A god so powerful that he can create the entire universe and said to be all loving, caring for every one of us. And those children, as they are being so sadistically used.
Were those children somehow bad? Did they do something for which god decided they deserved an agonizing death?
The reason I ask for your help on this is that I have already tried asking god, but I couldn't hear his answer over the screams of the children.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2009 - 06:02pm PT
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In the 1950's I was taught at my Catholic school that ONLY children
who were baptized Catholic could get in to heaven,
When I asked, at age five, but what about all the other children in the
world who were not Catholic and baptized, what happens to them when they die?
I was told all those other millions of kids would NEVER make it to heaven.
This really confused me at the time, and frankly pissed me off.
I told my parents I did not believe in such a god that would be so unfair
to the other kids. All hell broke loose at my home. I was told, in no
uncertain terms, that as long as I live in that home, that I WOULD go
to church and Catholic school, and that my parents did not care if I
believed in "god" or not. I could not strike out on my own at that age.
From then on, I hated "god" and the Catholic church. I became an ATHEIST
at that moment and became more and more convinced I was right as time went on.
I also let my parents know their stories of Santa and the Tooth Fairy were very suspicious.
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dfrost7
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 06:09pm PT
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Thanks for the cactus posts.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 06:09pm PT
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Dirt-
The ones that don't here about 'Jesus' he uses a basic good vs not. We all have a conscious and the inner man a thirst to know God "has put eternity in our hearts" I touched on this already up post. He is a just God!!!
The feeble minded are like little children, go directly to heaven. Jesus even says "unless you become like little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven" Mathew 18:3!!!
He is talking about there hearts/trust/innocents/love!!!
Little children are pure/innocent!!! Did you read Cragmans description of Alex, up post????
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 06:33pm PT
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"That being said, when man disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden, mankind fell into a life of sin. When we sin, we separate ourselves from God and His grace. Man being expelled from the Garden destined our lives to be wrought with sinful, evil things. It is because of US that this evil happens in the world."
So kids dying of aids sinned so much that they deserve a horrific death?
That's how he treats his children?
Like I said, God must be the biggest dick.
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 06:41pm PT
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Dirt-
The ones that don't here about 'Jesus' he uses a basic good vs not. We all have a conscious and the inner man a thirst to know God "has put eternity in our hearts" I touched on this already up post. He is a just God!!!
The feeble minded are like little children, go directly to heaven. Jesus even says "unless you become like little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven" Mathew 18:3!!!
He is talking about there hearts/trust/innocents/love!!!
Little children are pure/innocent!!! Did you read Cragmans description of Alex, up post????
Some beliefs wouldn't give so much leniency.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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Oct 22, 2009 - 07:00pm PT
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Be sure to inoculate your children against religiosity.
Children of agnostics, atheists or the non-church-going casually faithful, who have not been exposed to religion, can often become involved in cults or extremely devout in mainstream religions during their teens and college years.
It's important for them to build up the antibodies early in life and reject faith as a stress response; they cannot be "against" something unless exposed to it.
So take your kids to several different churches and talk to them about all the positives, negatives, contradictions, and alternatives.
Thank You.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Oct 22, 2009 - 07:03pm PT
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The whole unsaved toddler argument was very instrumental in the missionary movement at its global high-point. Still is, but not as much as when there were entire continents of lil' heathens to brainwash.
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Gene
Social climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 07:06pm PT
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Toddlers are saved because God is just.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 22, 2009 - 07:08pm PT
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Yup, dirtbag, that's the way of "the death cult"!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 22, 2009 - 07:12pm PT
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I also let my parents know their stories of Santa and the Tooth Fairy were very suspicious. At least the fat guy and the bunny man deliver the goods.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Oct 22, 2009 - 07:14pm PT
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When my son was about four he told me a secret.
The Easter Bunny is just Santa dressed in a rabbit suit.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 07:15pm PT
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Norton!!!
I am really devastated to here of your experience!!!
I didn't go to parochial school, thank God...
and I wasn't forced to go to church. Up until my experience at 8 yrs old I probably only went to mass a half dozen times and as I stated up post, I didn't have a clue what was going on, it was all in Latin and we stood up and sat down allot.
I did hear the gospel story at 7 yrs plain and simple, that He loved me..
I am not fond of the catholic church what so ever...
And from what you have told me, I believe you did the right thing.
It is a lie what they told you about the children!!!
Its a lie what the told you about baptism!!!
That brings to mind the time I got baptised. We were visiting my aunt and unlce in NYC and she convinced my mother(her sister) that my little brother (Tom) should be baptized. I was 7 yrs old, he was 2 yrs. old.
I'll never forget the big scene, the priest finishes his mumbo jumbo and he begins to leave, and they remind him about me. It was a big, he is to old to be baptised, oh brother, all right then come here, sprinkle, sprinkle, goodbye!! I remember thinking, what, I almost got sent to hell??
Didn't mean a thing to me!!! It was obvious by his attitude!!!
A priest!!! What a joke!!!
I am fortunate I came across a nun with a golden heart!!! I saw very little evidence of love though, after that,(I continued to go to church, Catholic, on my own from the age of 9-12) And never went back to a Catholic church in my life after the age of 12.
I remeber them telling me that only Catholics go to heaven also!!! And alot of other bogus stuff!
But I already new the 'Dude' by then and I didn't buy it and left.
Became kind of confused and bitter because of what I heard and developed the wrong image of Him.
At the age of 18, as a senior in High School, I heard about the four spiritual laws, and once again asked Jesus into my heart. A huge weight was lifted of my shoulders. Straightened my head out right away!!
Its a pity what the catholic church has done to the name of Christ, to litraly millions of people like you and my dear sister.
Once again Norton, you did the right thing by not going along with there hog wash at a young age!!! Brainwashing!!!
Like I said earlier, what happened to me at the age of 8, was the worst day of my life untel I called out to Him, and It became the best moment in my life for a long time to come!!!
Godbless you Norton!!! I know He loves you!!!
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Oct 22, 2009 - 07:39pm PT
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Go!
Perhaps you were implying that if christianity et.el., continued unchecked, some lack of desire or commitment to the betterment of humanity would slowly deteriorate progress....a sort of apathy towards science, etc,?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Am I getting any closer???
Do you undertand how the quote function works? When someone quotes something, it means they want to comment on it. I quoted your parable by CS Lewis, and then said I found it horrific. Why do you keep trying to suggest I'm talking about something else? If you prefer I'll spell it out.
The parable (and you) suggest that compared to Heaven, the most beautiful and natural scene is like Hell.
That devalues our world to (at best) second rank. And makes it easy to trash.
Personally, I find such a world view terribly sad, and terribly destructive.
GO
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Oct 22, 2009 - 07:50pm PT
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When you study the bible, and get a sense of what heaven will be like, you quickly understand that this world in which we live, pales in comparison. That doesn't denigrate what we have here.
Actually, yes it does.
Reading comprehension test: When I say Quincy Quarries in Boston was a decent place to learn how to climb, but Indian Creek kicks its ass left right and center, which one am I saying is worse?
GO
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