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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Split
Your explanation of the text message at 2:53 is cogent.
It gives us the last data point for Matt: awake and within reach of the cell tower.
(not necessarily in his tent at Shady Rest)
I don't believe we can extrapolate beyond that.
It does eliminate the possibility of his presence outside the immediate Mammoth area at that time. This exclusion is very important.
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tdg119
Social climber
Northampton, PA
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Split is 100% correct...
 the thing about the phone that makes me Nuts...I have looked at Matts Cell phone bill for the prior 2 months...NEVER, NOT ONCE was his phone on this early. Remember he was there for a month, he arranged rides, called people, got up in the middle of the night to pee pee, did everything he normally does....
People have suggested he got up to use it as an alarm clock, go to the restroom, maybe needed a light, or do whatever.... (NO!!! The phone being on at 2.53am PT is the biggest, most obvious, undisputable Red Flag we have).
His phone bill is clockwork....Everyday the Phone comes on around 6am and goes off everyday around 9pm..FOR 2 MONTHS, CLOCKWORK!, NOT A SINGLE EXCEPTION...
WHY ON THE DAY HE GOES MISSING DOES IT BREAK THE PATTERN? Everyone says to look for things "out of the ordinary" in SAR, look for what does not belong, etc...
The phone being on at 2.53am PT is the biggest, most obvious, undisputable Giant Red Flag slapping us in the face we have.
It can only mean 3 things:
1. He was in trouble and tried to call for help.
2. He was expecting a pre-arranged ride from somone he did not know
(expecting they would call him for example, if they did not see him at
the discussed meeting spot)
3. Someone else had it and turned it on.
If we ever figure out why his phone came on, we will have all the answers.
~Ron
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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SplitPants and HighTraverse,
Excellent points. I do find it a bit odd that (based on his cell phone records) Matt turned on his cell phone at such an early hour only on the 17th, not on any other day that he was in Mammoth Lakes. That might imply that it had something to do with what he was doing rather than just because he was awakened by noise. (And this was mid-week -- aren't campgrounds usually rowdier on weekends??) But as HighTraverse points out, we just don't know.
I do notice that Matt's phone was on at 5am on July 15th, when the timeline says he might have taken YARTS to Tuolomne (but that was unconfirmed). But 5am and 2:53am are rather different, in my opinion.
I hope that Matt's family can gain access to his email accounts soon, and also that Detective Hornbeck (or someone) can also quickly interview the people who came forward to say that they had had contact with Matt in the days before he went missing.
ETA: Ron, we were posting at the same time... I agree it's weird though maybe he could've had a special concern about the time if he'd lined up an early ride with someone he didn't know...
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tdg119
Social climber
Northampton, PA
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@ Dave, yes we can tell when it goes off as Split describes the timestamps
EDIT: I should say goes off between 9 and 10 +/- at the latest. Comes on at 5am +/- at the earliest over the course of the time.
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tdg119
Social climber
Northampton, PA
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So...If he was expecting a pre-arranged ride from somone he did not know.....
possible but again....he did this before and did not turn his phone on this early..it still breaks the pattern.
I am leaning to #1 - he was in trouble and tried to call for help...
put yourself there...Its 3am, its mid-week (quite), the people to the left and right of you are gone. No one is nearby. Someone attacks him, grabs his body and gear, tring to dispose of the evidence or make it look like a hiking accident or grabing the easist thing of value.
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KellyDoesntClimb
Social climber
Dunwoody, GA
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Checking in, my map at maps.google.com is now empty but has a link to one that is better for me to edit. I can't figure out how to edit it while in earth mode, which would make the trails/highlighted areas more accurate, but the fact that it has layers makes it easier to view. You should be able to check or un-check the timeline (green) and see the red (searched) and yellow (not searched).
https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zH95mGu2yK0M.k0POTplcpetE
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James Wilcox
Boulder climber
The Coast
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regarding an attack in a campground. While anything is possible, in all my time spent in Eastside Sierra campgrounds(considerable) I've never heard of this type of random attack or violence. Arguments and fights have broken out from time to time, but usually among people that know each other, and typically alcohol-infused. But if Matt was attacked at 3:00 am I gotta think someone heard something who was nearby. Noise in a campground that early in the morning is not appreciated and usually gets attention.
Now, if he had been woken up by noisey neighbors, and turned on his phone to check the time, you'd think he would quickly turn it back off. Leaving it on does seem to indicate an objective.
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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^^Agreed.
I had two guys attempt to break into my truck at 0420 in January of 2012 while I was sleeping in the back out at the hotsprings just 10 mins south of Mammoth. Yelling some expletives at the top of my lungs was all it took to scare the shet out of them and run away. Thugs just aren't that bold to stick around, especially in a campground with other people around.
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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James Wilcox said:
Now, if he had been woken up by noisey neighbors, and turned on his phone to check the time, you'd think he would quickly turn it back off. Leaving it on does seem to indicate an objective.
James, I don't think we know that Matt left the phone on. (Unless you meant he left it on for it to receive that text, which sometimes takes a minute or so.) In fact, we may have some evidence that his phone was either off or out of range after he received that text at 2:53am. Namely, it says on the timeline that the phone was called three times later that day -- only one time is given, 2:48pm -- but that no longitude/latitude are given for those calls -- the only address given is that of the main cell tower in Mammoth Lakes -- and the police said that was because the phone was off or had no signal.
(Ron, when you said you could see from the phone bill when the phone was turned on or off, did you mean you could actually see that info? I thought you meant that you could infer the approximate times the phone was turned on and off by noting the time-stamps of calls and texts that were sent or received.)
I gather that Matt's campsite was near the edge of the campground -- maybe on purpose, because it would be quieter there? But I think an attack would be noticeable even there. Also, if an attacker's motive was theft, why would they take only one of the ice axes and not the helmet? Though I have no idea why Matt turned on his phone so early, the items that were missing point to a coherent and reasonable objective: a climb involving possible snow.
As SplitPants pointed out, after turning the phone on for whatever reason, Matt might have gone back to sleep. If he did so, and then turned the phone on again briefly when he got up again, I don't think that would be on the bill unless he got calls or texts during that time later in the morning...
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tdg119
Social climber
Northampton, PA
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Corret LA - "infer the approximate times the phone was turned on and off by noting the time-stamps of calls and texts that were sent or received"
LA you said "an attack would be noticeable even there" Do you mean someone would hear screams for help etc?
My suspicion IF it was an attack it was not random, but deliberate. Like 99% of all murders. - by someone he knows, with a motive.
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kenish
Gym climber
Orange County, CA
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The phone being on at 2.53am PT is the biggest, most obvious, undisputable Giant Red Flag slapping us in the face we have.
AFAIK there's been no further effort to localize the 0253 text. Somehow, misinformation is out that phone location is only available from calls and not texts. Calls and text use the same wireless "container" and location info is no different in either case. (There may different legal processes involved to obtain the info).
Early on I commented that the Verizon logs show the 0253 text location as north of the cell site atop Mammoth Mountain; the town and campground are east. Maybe I misinterpreted the log. If not, important info is being set aside.(Not trying to be right...but based on the posts that followed, it's been puzzling that it hasn't been pursued any further). Since time and expense are required for a search warrant and for Verizon to retrieve the information, the family ought to use an alternate process such as a court order.
IMO an abduction followed by elaborate evidence-hiding is very unlikely (of course not impossible). Targets of a well-rehearsed crime have an item or knowledge of great value to the attacker(s). If foul play happened in the campground it would be someone looking for booze, drug, or gas money at random, and a scuffle would get lots of attention in the crowded campground. The campground is in ML city limits and the MLPD are actively investigating, I would assume they have ruled out foul play at the campground.
My understanding of SAR is no clue is ever ruled out...but with limited resources, the most likely scenarios require and receive the most attention.
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Tiffany or Ron said:
LA you said "an attack would be noticeable even there" Do you mean someone would hear screams for help etc?
Yes, I mean someone would probably have heard screams for help. And even if they didn't, an attacker would have to have removed the body, which generally leaves evidence (blood, drag marks). But there was no blood found in or on the tent, right? Matt's clothes were still neatly folded, which is unlikely after a fight (unless the attacker folded them, which would have taken time and isn't usually characteristic of an attack).
My suspicion IF it was an attack it was not random, but deliberate. Like 99% of all murders. - by someone he knows, with a motive.
Well, maybe, but did Matt have any enemies? It sure doesn't sound that way.
In the unlikely circumstance that foul play was involved, robbery might have been a motive. But it's unlikely that a robber would know enough to take the big pack, Sportivas, ice axe, and crampons while leaving one ice axe and the helmet (and maybe some other climbing stuff) to make it look like Matt was going for an objective involving snow but not rock climbing. It's unlikely a thief would have left such a coherent collection of items by accident -- only a fellow climber would know to do that. A fellow climber who was a thief wouldn't be able to use the gear because others would recognize it. I guess such a climber/thief could sell it, but what climber would murder someone for a few pieces of gear??
While in general I think foul play is unlikely, I think it might become a bit more likely during a ride with someone Matt didn't know (whether a prearranged ride or someone Matt might have hitched a ride with a little later in the morning). At least then the gear would have been selected by Matt for a reasonable objective. Or Matt could have been hit by a car when walking along a road in the pr-dawn hours. (Onyourleft has checked the most likely road for that, but of course that doesn't rule it out.) But it still seems to me that a climbing accident is more likely.
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tdg119
Social climber
Northampton, PA
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Early on I commented that the Verizon logs show the 0253 text location as north of the cell site atop Mammoth Mountain; the town and campground are east.
- Kernish where are you getting these logs. The info I have doesnt show text locations
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pacarockhound
Social climber
Escondido CA
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Ron, Tiffany, etc. Would it be possible to post as an attachment the original or a revision of flyer that is posted in Mammoth Lakes so that readers can forward it on to their friends who may be going to Mammoth Lakes area?
My heart and prayers are with you.
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tdg119
Social climber
Northampton, PA
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SplitPants
Social climber
LA
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All,
This is the call/text detail I have for the 16th and 17th (Tiffany let me know if I copy/pasted something wrong).
7/16 11:12 AM EDT / 8:12 AM PDT 1 Peak -- (voicemail)
7/16 6:00 PM EDT / 3:00 PM PDT Text Sent
7/16 6:06 PM EDT / 3:06 PM PDT 24 Peak -- (parents)
From 8:12 AM to 3:06 PM cell phone registered:
Lat 37.638167 Lon -118.961611, 1601 Meridian Blvd, Mammoth Lakes, Ca.
Directly south of the library. Directly north a mile or two from where Matt was camping.
7/16 7:29 PM EDT / 4:29 PM PDT 1 Peak -- (repair shop)
7/16 7:35 PM EDT / 4:35 PM DPT 2 Peak -- (repair shop)
From 4:29 PM to 4:35 PM cell phone registered:
Lat 37.630528 Lon -119.033078, 5920 Minaret Rd, Mammoth Lakes, Ca, top of Mammoth Mtn. After examination/discussing with SAR and looking at the Azimuth (deg) per the ping, it was determined Matt "possibly" called from the Main Lodge or anywhere in that direction.
This is the last phone call from Matt’s phone (per MLPD no more pings after the 16th of July at 4:35 pm)
7/16 7:40 PM EDT / 4:40 PM PDT Text Sent
7/16 8:57 PM EDT / 5:57 PM PDT Text Received
7/16 9:13 PM EDT / 6:13 PM PDT Text Sent
7/16 10:38 PM EDT / 7:38 PM PDT Text Received
7/16 10:52 PM EDT / 7:52 PM PDT Text Received
7/16 11:09 PM EDT / 8:09 PM PDT Text Sent
7/16 11:34 PM EDT / 8:34 PM PDT Text Received
Per MLPD Verizon re: text message retrieval. Verizon only holds that information for about 3 to 4 days.
Per Verizon too much time has passed by.
July 17th (Wednesday)
07/17 5:53 AM EDT / 2:53 AM PDT Text Received
Family traced who sent that last txt message and made contact but unfortunately the individual does not remember what he'd said and it's no longer on his phone.
Per MLPD: 2:48 pm, July 17, 2013, 39 Pinecrest, Mammoth Lakes, Ca, Verizon building and tower.This address is the main Verizon building/tower in Mammoth Lakes. There is no outbound phone call activity after the 16th of July, as indicated on my Verizon emergency request re: Greene’s cell phone, his phone was turned off/powered off.
The 2:48 pm is not a ping, because there is no Lat & Lon indicated.
Per MLPD: Verizon nor any other cellular service provider ping text, it pings the telephone when the telephone is on, not turned off.
Per MLPD: There were 3 phone calls to Matt's number on this day and they reverted back to the main Verizon tower on Pinecrest.
Per MLPD: From July 17, 2013 to July 30, 2013, 39 Pinecrest, Mammoth Lakes, Ca
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letterfromthesky
climber
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put yourself there...Its 3am, its mid-week (quite), the people to the left and right of you are gone. No one is nearby. Someone attacks him, grabs his body and gear, tring to dispose of the evidence or make it look like a hiking accident or grabing the easist thing of value.
I am going to preface this as a non-climber/non-hiker/major indoor girl, so I am well aware that anything I contribute should be taken with a salt lick. However, I've been following this thread for the better part of two weeks now, and the discussions today really hit me.
If it was a robbery, why would they even bother with Matt's phone? I have a similar, low tech phone, and there is no value to it. I don't even think it retails for 30 dollars. I wouldn't see anyone bothering with it. It is essentially worthless, and not being a smartphone, there would be no personal data (charge card numbers, bank numbers, email, ect) to steal and set up an identity fraud. This to me would rule out that it was anyone but Matt turning on the phone. I would think that a thief would leave it alone.
The same thing for the equipment. If it was a random attack, how would they know what to take to get the most value? If you put a whole bunch of hiking and camping equipment in front of me, I'd be hard pressed to pick the most valuable. I could guess what would be the most expensive, but in terms of what would be easiest to sell off for a quick buck... no clue. Between that and none of his equipment showing up any pawn/resell stores, I would rule out a random foul play situation. If it someone who knew what they were doing and was trying to set a scene, then I have no clue.
As far as the early morning text goes, if he was looking for the person who was going to be giving him a ride, wouldn't there be another text/phone call? Something along the line "Hey, I am here." or "Running late" or "See you soon." from either of the parties? Or was that not Matt's style? I am an over communicator, so it would be characteristic for me do something like that, but I don't know if it would be in line with Matt.
(Do we know who sent that last text and at what time? For instance was it really sent at 3a, or was it sent sometime the previous evening and was received when the phone was turned on? My apologies if this has been gone over a million times... I've read and read this thread, but the one time I post I'm drawing a blank!)
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tdg119
Social climber
Northampton, PA
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Fact. More people have been murdered in Yosemite then killed by mt lions, bears, snakes combined.
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SplitPants
Social climber
LA
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Thought the family/friends would like to know that Todd went up to Mammoth. He just checked into the same campsite, space #161.
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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SplitPants,
That's great -- Todd can get a feel for the campground, and I think he said he might hike to Agnew Meadows so he could search on the way.
(BTW, I thought Matt was in campsite #164. But even if that's so, it's right next door...)
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