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Fluid
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 19, 2013 - 12:42pm PT
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The photos in the link below are captioned:
"Police Photo showing George Zimmer's appearance on the night of the Trayvon Martin shooting." They are the same photos posted above.
http://www.wtsp.com/news/photo-gallery.aspx?storyid=255685
The one photo in the following link was taken by a police officer the night of the shooting, and shows the same clothes (it was presented by the defense, but they could hardly have staged the fact that it was taken that night by an officer).
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/03/15647937-defense-posts-george-zimmerman-photo-from-night-of-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite
There are indeed, many more sources.
Hitting a head against concrete would not create too much blood, mostly internal injury. These photos are certainly not an argument against such an event, but neither are they particularly an argument for it. The question for the jury was doubt, which seems entirely obvious.
[edit: didn't see it in time, but chaz posts the same link as above]
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Jul 19, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
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Martin was a hero, stepping up to protect his friends and neighbors from an armed intruder in the night.
His friends weren't there. And as he was a guest visiting his father it's hard to say the other residents were his neighbors. Really if Martin lived there he'd probably already know the overzealous neighborhood watching GZ, and been able to say something like "hi George, how is your paranoia?" before ignoring him and walking on.
From what the news presents, TM was just a kid. Not all good or all bad but like most kids, and most of us, he had some of each. It's unfortunate he made a foolish, and fatal, choice that night. Such are the risks of youth.
Edit: Oh, Gary is from Sarcasm. That explains a lot. Thanks Philo.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Jul 19, 2013 - 12:49pm PT
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Look in the Mirror Chazer.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Jul 19, 2013 - 12:51pm PT
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OK Chazmeister I checked your link and still call BS on the "severity" of Zimmies owies.
Those are not serious booboos. My kids got worse bangs and bruises on the playground in elementary school and they kept playing. Lets get a reaction from a doctor or trauma specialist on how long they think those gaping head wounds bled till clotted. My guess is 5 minutes or less based on the dried blood flow. And yes I have some experience in the whole clot time factor. So lets see the MRI of Zimmie's brain. Let's see the evidence of a concussion. Surely there must be some evidence of major trauma if Zimmie was really getting beat down enough to claim his life was threatened.
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Jul 19, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
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I do understand what's going on
Zimmerman killed Trayvon in cold blood, and should be in jail for life.
That's the jist of all this.
As you are an arrogant partisan nitwit, of course you would think this.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jul 19, 2013 - 12:53pm PT
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It's enough to back up Zimmermann's story. It's evidence of a felony assault. ( unless you think Zimmermann did it to himself, then you're the one with head problems )
I wouldn't want one mark like that on my head, and Zimmermann need not have waited for the first mark before legally fighting back. Look up self defense statutes. Do I need to google it for you too, like I did for Dr F.?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Jul 19, 2013 - 01:06pm PT
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Head wounds bleed copiously.
Let's see the evidence of Zimmie's "internal" bleeding.
Must have been a horrible amount of internal brain bleeding to swell that fat head so.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Jul 19, 2013 - 01:06pm PT
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It's not a felony assault to defend yourself, Chaz, and TM gets to stand his ground too.
No one knows who instigated the physical confrontation, except Zimmerman, a known lier to the court.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Jul 19, 2013 - 01:08pm PT
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Yep, Zimmerman created the situation by pursuing and ignoring police advice. But the law seems to care only about the first physical contact.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Jul 19, 2013 - 01:11pm PT
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But the law seems to care only about the first physical contact. That's why I will never take the first swing.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jul 19, 2013 - 01:14pm PT
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Chaz:
A person who reasonably believes that they are being threatened with imminent and otherwise unavoidable death or grave bodily harm may in that instant take the life of their attacker
Yet you and the rest of the conservative white males question a 17 year old defending himself against an armed man who followed him and instigated a confrontation. You even suggest Trayvon was at fault for punching his attacker, despite there clearly being reason to believe he was being threatened.
GZ gave up his right to self-defense when he got out of his car, pursued an innocent kid, and instigated the confrontation. Trayvon was entitled to defend himself AS SOON as he believed GZ was threatening him. But for some reason, no conservative white male seems capable of comprehending that.
the law seems to care only about the first physical contact.
I don't think so. I'm pretty sure you can defend yourself as soon as there is reason to believe you are being threatened with grave bodily harm. If someone was following me in their car, aggressively confronted me after I went out of my way to avoid them, did not identify themselves, and got in my face close enough that I could punch them, I would consider that reason to believe I was being threatened with gave bodily harm.
I like how some argue Trayvon had no right to punch GZ despite GZ instigating an up close and personal confrontation FOR NO LEGITIMATE REASON, yet see no problems with thinly veiled threats of violence like "I pray for your sake we never meet" based on words typed on a stupid internet forum.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Jul 19, 2013 - 01:19pm PT
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I watched your video link Manzanitass and it shows superficial and insignificant injuries.
Look how less horrible his fat head looks when they bring him into the station.
And he shows NO sign of the effects a concussion would cause.
But keep trying we know you can get it to fit.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jul 19, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
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Monolith writes:
"It's not a felony assault to defend yourself, Chaz, and TM gets to stand his ground too."
Weschrist writes:
"...a 17 year old defending himself..."
Once Martin was on top of Zimmermann, he was no longer defending himself. You don't get to hit a guy when he's down. If Martin had called it a day after breaking Zimmermann's nose, he'd either still be alive today, or Zimmermann would be locked up.
Can't beat a guy when he's down. That's no longer self defense ( look it up ). That's a felony ( at least here in California ). Martin over-played his hand by beating a guy when he was down, and it cost him his life.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Jul 19, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
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Nope, one can still shoot from the ground. Exactly as Z described. TM didn't use enough force to keep himself from being killed.
And as noted earlier, other witnesses had Z on top at some point.
It's a freeking fight, Chaz, your rules of top/bottom are hilarious.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jul 19, 2013 - 01:44pm PT
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Once Martin was on top of Zimmermann, he was no longer defending himself. You don't get to hit a guy when he's down.
And which law are you referring to? Or are you just making sh#t up? Clearly Trayvon did not use enough force to defend against the danger. Your understanding of the laws is fuking pathetic.
You are familiar with the concept of proportionality? If Trayvon saw GZ's gun, as GZ claimed, Trayvon had every right to smash that fukheads brains all over the sidewalk.
The simple point you seem to be missing is, GZ was the one who initiated the confrontation. Is anyone really stupid enough to think "self-defense" applies to a confrontation they started? GZ was the one acting in a threatening manner. GZ wasn't defending sh#t when he got out of his car and confronted Trayvon... he was on offense. Trayvon first ran (which clearly got his pursuer amped up) and then stood his ground when he had no other option. Why is that so hard for you conservative white males to understand?
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Jul 19, 2013 - 01:46pm PT
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If Trayvon saw GZ's gun, as GZ claimed, he had every right to smash that fukheads brains all over the sidewalk.
Attempting to do so was the Darwin move.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Jul 19, 2013 - 01:48pm PT
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Not if you are already in a fight.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Jul 19, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
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Trayvon first ran and then stood his ground when he had no other option. As would most of us except for those cowardly lions cheerleading for Zimmie the Black hunter.
Those Walter Middy panseys would no doubt roll over grease their own O-rings and plead "be gentle big boi".
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command error
Trad climber
Colorado
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Jul 19, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
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Darwin Award winner Trayvon Martin! Awarded posthumously for attacking an armed neighborhood watchman, at night, while stoned.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Jul 19, 2013 - 01:51pm PT
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A watchman who didn't identify himself as a watchman and having trace marijuana in your system is not 'stoned'.
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