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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
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Skip,
Likewise- thanks for your insights as well.
Paul
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Jorroh
climber
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Crackaddict said "The larger European union is socialist also, do you know how many jobs they created from 1980-1992? None. And do I even need to bring Cuba, North Korea, East Germany, the Soviet Union, etc. Into the conversation? These countries make (or made, for most of them) collective decisions about national priorities also."
No sh#t, you really can't tell the difference between western social democracies and the eastern block communist countries?
It cracks me up to hear you guys throw around the word socialist, picking up a political science book might help, but hey, its fun to watch three chimps playing in the zoo.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Socialist...It's more like waynes world with wayne and garth discussing urban legend...Quite hilarious...Party on..!
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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I'm not interested in getting into debates about this topic - I'm reading from all viewpoints as I think all sides have merit. People lose points for sh#t-slinging, and there sure is a lot of that going on here.
But I am a believer that the system has found it's way to a section in the maze where there is very little change of finding the exit. It IS possible, but how....nobody can agree on which course to take.
United, we stand. Divided, we fall.
As individuals - do we really - REALLY - want to see our country fall? I know that I do not.
But, I also do believ it is greed which has gotten us here. Some suggest we should be mad at government, and not individuals. I agree, to a point. But it is individuals who make up the government, and individuals who, because of self-interest, have bribed those in positions of power to bend their way.
The amazing maze of US corporate politics in the late 20th and 21st centuries.
I have a question, for those supporting OWS: Are you still, perhaps inadvertently SUPPORTING WS?
 Still own stocks, even as part of your company 401k?
Still shopping at the corp store(publicly traded) when you know you have smaller options?
Moved money from big bank yet and into credit union? Or found another way to not keep your assets IN an institution?
I know it has become very difficult, and in some cases impossible, to not utilize the system which has been corrupted. But I think that the OWS movement would make an even greater impact by starving WS.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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You're free, of course, to come to your own conclusions about what keeps people coming by the hundreds to OWS events. I'll continue to make deductions by what I see and hear from participants.
JEleazrain
Well John, you must try hard to NOT listen to what the OWS participants are saying, because you miss most of what they are saying.
Is it that you are stupid or that you just don't really want to look at what the participants are saying?
(I know you're not stupid, so I'll conclude it must be the latter.)
Here, let me help you out. This is straight from the mouth of the official Occupy Wall Street web site, not some MSM intrepertation:
First OFFICIAL Release from OCCUPY WALL STREET
[Edit: This is not an actual "official" release from OWS, but is it does contain some of the items for which the protests are about.]
Now you can't claim ignorance.
So how about it, think you can revise your statement: "OWS remains a movement based on envy and ignorance."
These folks are not ignorant--in fact, they are brighter than most because they see through the manipulations that have wreaked havoc on our economy.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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The participants aren't saying anything, K-man.
They're doing that on purpose.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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I personally know plenty of people (my wife's folks prominently) who relied on interest earnings for a significant part of their retirement.
- JE
I find this ironic. From my readings on this forum, conservatives find it weak to blame others for their hardships. To the poor they say that they didn't apply themselves well, didn't save correctly, or work hard enough. And because of this, they have no right to complain about their standings.
But here is John, a staunch conservative, bemoaning the low interest rates and how they have hurt his parents in-law. Well John, tell them to buck up. They obviously didn't work hard enough, and are now trying to live off poor investments. Where's the good conservative in you that says "screw all those that got shamed by an unregulated marketplace."
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Chaz, you're actually trying to claim that the OWS participants aren't saying anything?
Did you read the page I linked to, where the OWS participants wrote to the NY General Assembly?
How about this from the Home Page of OWS:
It is time for us to come together and build a new world through the power of the individual and the community. We are not here to make requests of a corrupt political system - we are here to take our lives back into our own hands. We are not acknowledging subservience. There is no higher power than the power of the people. We are not asking for assistance. We are declaring independence. Our demand is not to those in power, it is to those individuals still silenced. Join us.
Read more here: http://occupywallst.org/
Good thing for you breathing is a primitive.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
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No sh#t, you really can't tell the difference between western social democracies and the eastern block communist countries?
It cracks me up to hear you guys throw around the word socialist, picking up a political science book might help, but hey, its fun to watch three chimps playing in the zoo.
Of course there is a difference, but only one of degree. The more a country adopts central planning and top down government, the more poverty stricken the population in that country becomes. Western social democracies are dying a slow death, whereas the eastern block communist countries were complete and utter economic disasters.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
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check this
some church choir shuts down a public auction of forclosed homes
This is just plain dumb. There is no housing shortage. Anybody being foreclosed on can turn around and rent for cheaper than the house payment they weren't making. 99% of these people are getting out of a very bad decision on their part with few repercussions. Banks, investors, pension funds, etc. are the ones left holding the bag, getting collateral worth 30% of the loan they made (after 3 years of no payments and sometimes tens of thousands of dollars of fix up).
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
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heh,
f*#king dipshit wonks
google "tent city" images,
"local incampments"
those aint protestors, those are your neighbors
living down in the gulch
while you f*#kers complain about the green pools
and the brown yards of the empty houses
all over your neighborhood
They aren't my neighbors. I know plenty of people who have foreclosed. They realized they bit off more than they could chew and they have moved on with their lives.
The larger point is though that this is what happens when central planning tries to override market forces. Government policies to put everyone in their own home were ill-advised. Not everyone should, or needs to, own their own home. The market gets what the market wants, eventually. The longer it is forestalled the more the eventual pain.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Wait, the spokesperson for the occupy wall street protest is about to make a statement......
...wait for it...............
Let him be heard my brothers.......
Looks like the current problem is that his Oshkosh overalls are too ....ahhhem, damp shall we say. He's blaming everyone for this btw.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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About debt. It's interesting to note that the amount of debt accrued in the world is equal to [roughly] 14x the world's annual GDP.
To put this in prospective, imagine that you made $50k / year, and you owed $700k on your credit card. Think you'd ever be able to pay it off?
And the amount of world debt ain't getting smaller.
What do you think this means for the economic systems currently in place?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Why wouldn't his overalls be wet? Surely he's a believer in trickle on economics?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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I'll be attending a reunion of my Young Republicans graduation class.
Then, I'll be meeting with MIchele Bachman.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Ill be out counter-protesting today in Walnut Creek
Just be sure not to sit on that counter. In fact, maybe you should rethink your protest idea and make it simply a sofa protest.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Crackaddict Of course there is a difference, but only one of degree. The more a country adopts central planning and top down government, the more poverty stricken the population in that country becomes. Western social democracies are dying a slow death, whereas the eastern block communist countries were complete and utter economic disasters.
Can't believe I'm wading into this, but huh? I wouldn't argue that the eastern block countries were a disaster, but the Scandanavian countries, which are more social welfare states than say the US or Germany, have higher standards of living for the majority of their population than do the more capitalist examples such as the US.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Ill be out counter-protesting today in Walnut Creek
Don't you mean getting lunch?
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