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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 3, 2014 - 07:34am PT
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I hear you Sketch. There's no absolute proof of population decline. And the article says it's a small study.
Why is it small? Probably a few reasons. Cut in funding might be one. Also, it's remote and cold.
The report is very cautious in it's predictions. But the indicators seem to be there and the implications are quite clear. We know the planet is warming and that the sea ice is regressing (unless you deny the conclusions of many scientific studies). The article makes it pretty clear as to what that means for polar bear populations.
But you have a valid point. I suppose we should just wait and see what happens...why take any action now? Especially because, as The Chief points out, it will be expensive.
BTW, seen the price of food lately? A favorite quote of mine:
In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 3, 2014 - 08:18am PT
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What?? No cute cubs for the Prince of Darkness?
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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So I'm seeing many of our favorite pro climbers posting photos with "#actonclimate". In light of the President's bold move to "protect our children..." what exactly is going to happen? HOW are they going to reduce emissions? Tax the sh#t out of power plants?
I just see this as a means for the government to get more money and everyone, as usual, is jumping on the bandwagon.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 3, 2014 - 09:27pm PT
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BTW KaveMAN, on your site of Mass Extinction Species, there are several ref's to migratory birds and other species that of late, are becoming victims to giant WIND TURBINES and SOLAR FARMS.
So much hate from The Chief, over and over.
What is the problem, The Chief, ain't nobody givin' you lovin'? Is that why you're so cranky? Come on, spill the beans, why all the hate?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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if you're interested in what was actually proposed, you might be interested in this link:
http://www2.epa.gov/carbon-pollution-standards/clean-power-plan-proposed-rule
STATES GET TO DECIDE
 Before issuing the Clean Power Plan, EPA heard from more than 300 stakeholder groups, including states, utilities, labor unions, nongovernmental organizations, consumer groups, industry and others to learn more about what programs are already working to reduce carbon pollution. We learned that states are leading the way– especially through programs that encourage energy efficiency and renewable energy.
States can choose to rely on measures EPA used to calculate the goal to varying degrees, as well as on other measures that were not part of the goal-setting analysis.
States can choose to participate in multi-state programs that already exist or may create new ones
States that have already invested in energy efficiency programs will be able to build on these
programs during the compliance period to help make progress toward meeting their target.
States can choose how to meet the goals – they have up to two or three years to submit final plans depending on whether they work alone or in partnership with other states and up to 15 years for full implementation of all emission reduction measures, after the proposed Clean Power Plan is finalized.
States get to decide when individual power plants must make reductions.
EPA’s guidelines also provide flexibility and encourage states to look across their whole electric system to identify strategies to include in their plans that reduce carbon pollution from fossil fuel fired power plants.
Some of the measures states can choose to rely on in their plans include, but are not limited to:
◊ demand-side energy efficiency programs
◊ renewable energy standards
◊ efficiency improvements at plants
◊ co-firing or switching to natural gas
◊ transmission efficiency improvements
◊ energy storage technology
◊ retirements
◊ expanding renewables or nuclear
◊ market-based trading programs
◊ energy conservation programs
States can choose to integrate plans with the long-term planning and investment processes already used in this sector, and design them in ways that address region- and state-specific needs.
The proposal gives states significant flexibility to develop a program that addresses the unique
needs of generators within each state. It provides states the ability to craft requirements that vary the timing and magnitude of reductions to address individual challenges that municipal utilities and rural electric cooperatives may face.
States can decide how to treat plants nearing the end of their useful life and how to help plants avoid “stranded investments.”
Together, the choices that states can make about when power plants must make reductions and about how they can do so will allow states to work with sources, planners and regulators to address individualized issues that may arise. The states and EPA will rely on the continued discussions with a broad variety of stakeholders – including utilities, Regional Transmission Operators, and state public utility regulators – to make sure all issues are appropriately considered and addressed.
By setting a state-specific goal and giving states the choice about what to include in their plans, EPA is ensuring that states have the flexibility they need to drive investment in innovation, while ensuring reliability and affordability.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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you guys are gnarly
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 3, 2014 - 10:38pm PT
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If you're interested in how ALL this will really affect you, listen to the man himself...
Yes, burning coal and other fossil fuels isn't cheap. Pay for it up front or pay for it later. No way around it, you're gonna pay for it.
And by "pay for it," don't fool yourself into thinking that I mean the politicians are going to line their pockets. You've posted that clip numerous times, The Chief. Have you actually listed to it? If so, tell me, where does that the money in increased energy costs go?
No, not a trick question.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Or states can tell the Feds to piss off and elect new congressional representatives, governors, presidents, impeach the activist judges and reclaim their freedom from the fascist statists. This law bending EPA/rabid enviro overeach will only result in a huge wealth transfer from those in the middle and lower economic rungs to the criminal state/corporate interests. Besides this it will result in large job losses as energy intensive manufacturers offshore to developing nations not in compliance with this CAGW nonsense. Look to current European news with one failing green dream after another for validation of the above statement, not Bruce's offering of drivel from 2011's propaganda rag The Economist, or Ed' offering of excrement directly from the horses ass.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 4, 2014 - 12:22am PT
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The Chief, I don't think you listened to your clip very carefully. The increase in the cost of energy doesn't go to the Gov't.
Instead, the additional cost added to your energy bill is used to cover the cost of cleaning up the emissions from the coal plants. Listen to what Obama says in the clip you keep re-posting. He says it directly. And he also says those costs will get passed to the consumer.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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It migbt help your green tech laden stock portfolio Bruce, but for the average Joe and Jane it is just another large indirect tax hike that takes the developed worlds standard of living down a few more notches into the realm of the third world. I guess that's the point of it all in the end; equality and control among the serfdom.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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A week ago I took my second cousin, a geophysicist with an extreme save the planet eco bent, on a little hike up the Talkeetna range' Gunsight Mountain. Here, in the metamorphosed sandstones, lies a library of Devonian sea denizens. You have many species of clams, ammonites and the occasional trilobite fossils. She is from a devout catholic family and was never subjected to this "creationist biblical" explanation of the world you so often attribute to knuckle dragging Christians. Where is this backwards population you so often allude to Bruce?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 4, 2014 - 09:12am PT
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why so much hate the chief?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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According to the RSS satellite data, whose value for May 2014 has just been published, the global warming trend in the 17 years 9 years since September 1996 is zero
Sketch breathlessly rushes here to regurgitate what Lord Monckton has fed him at WUWT. Including the typo! But Sketch coyly does not mention his source.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I think Sketch is sure to point out that he posted the plot and quote without offering his opinion about that plot and quote...
He's trolling as usual, so while he doesn't say what his point is, it is rather a transparent effort to produce some drama.
He has primarily offered drama (quantifiable, the the number of words where he states his actual viewpoint to the total number if words he's posted)
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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He's trolling as usual Yeah I think we've all noticed that. He's got nothing.
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