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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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eeyonkee, I hear you.
But when you have the time, I'm still interested (1) in your take on Pinker's breakdown of the fw question into four (eg, as strategy) and also (2) in your take of Pinker ascribing (some version of) fw to the frontal cortex (where deeper analysis, etc takes place as you know).
"...we could call those processes 'free will'" -Pinker
Pinker, of course, because we are both fans of him; because he serves as our common ground.
EXTRA Don't you think a more competent chess engine has more "degrees of freedom" otherwise options in its decision-making than a less competent one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YYr8311yY0
(1) 45:10
(2) 47:15
...
Living with robots!
Harris talks to an expert in... robot ethics!... from MIT
"So one of the things I think we could see in the near future and have literally no idea what to do with is child-size sex robots. -Kate Darling, robot ethicist"
What she means here, I think, is... no idea how to deal with... lol
https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/living-with-robots
Kate Darling...
https://twitter.com/grok_ (Note the handle. Pretty cool!)
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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On Matisse’s “time-to-hang-it-up” thread, Donini said: There is no mind/body dichotomy.....behavior is a function of both. Our physical health can be affected by genetics, injury or life style but, bottom line, how we deal with what we have is our attitude.
Here’s a great example of the conflagration of mind-body, material-spiritual, objective-subjective, free will-determinism issues. This is how people usually talk: they say everything all at once. IMO, that’s very much an indicator of what reality is: it’s everything—and that everything must be taken all at once. Nature, nurture, will, cause-and-effect, chance or luck, etc. all seem to play a part in what-this-is. Parsing objective from subjective, spiritual / emotional / mental from material, etc. all seem somewhat like a fool’s errand. Bracketing one “thing” from the all is synthetic, artificial, and unreal.
***
No matter how one sees, conceptualizes, or mythologizes reality, it’s going to be pretty strange when anyone really thinks about it.
(i) We currently believe that reality is dynamic, that it presents almost nothing but change, cause-and-effect, that there was a beginning and will be some kind of an end, with events leading other events. Reality is flux (see, Heraclitus).
(ii) We could believe (and most of us seem to hold these expectations—look at Matisse’s and others’ concerns about getting old and losing vitality) that nothing changes. The universe could possibly be a stable place in perfect, non-dynamic equilibrium. In that reality, we’d be more likely to know what everything is *exactly* because nothing would change.
No matter how it’s conceptualized, reality is a pretty strange place . . . such a place that we can are faced with conundrums about subjectivity vs. objectivity, discrete “things” vs. a deeply inter-connected matrix of “manifestations,” free-will vs. determinism, etc.
I’d say, focus on the strangeness.
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WBraun
climber
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Oh, they know how to conceptualize everything and they know how to argue those.
But ultimately they always come to this point.
"NO ONE KNOWS" hahaha lol
Meanwhile, they always present everything as some sort of factual proof even though they know deep down inside them that ultimately they're clueless but they believe their idea (theory) will ultimately hold.
There's no need to ultimately "KNOW" we'll change it when new facts come if any, they say.
Meanwhile they know he's the killer and hang him.
Years later new facts came.
OH SH!T !!!! we killed this innocent man!!!
Oh well ..... we're only human ... they say.
(But in the future they say .... ("WE WILL KNOW") LOL
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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MikeL, are you suggesting that we turn and face the strange?
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Trite? What numbers would not be realized in an infinite universe? What number is not inevitable in an infinite universe?
A number is a concept. One hundred monkeys typing Hamlet is a physical thing I can easily imagine, so it should be so? You are certain the inverse is infinite? And that time is infinite?
If we live in an infinite universe with a set structure that allows somethings and disallows others then why wouldn't all possibilities be inevitable?
Prove to me they should be inevitable.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Light at night causes mitochondrial dysfunction by decoupling melanopsin/retinol. Put on BlueBlocker glasses when the sun goes down and keep your bedroom as pitch black as you can get it.
Both depression and cancer are largely mitochondrial diseases.
Find out how to put your mitochondria in optimal environments relative to where you live and the places you must go.
https://www.cnet.com/news/study-ties-nighttime-lighting-to-depression/
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WBraun
climber
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The minute the sun goes down I put on my Miller welding helmet and when log into this forum I immediately put on my helicopter nomex flameproof flight suit ......
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Ok, Werner, that was pretty darned funny. (And thank you Dingus!)
eeyonkee: MikeL, are you suggesting that we turn and face the strange?
Sure. I guess what I was trying to say is that there is nothing that is not strange when I look closely at it: you, me, marriage, governments, society, culture, QM, business, religion, any “thing,” children, cats, art, spirituality, depression, consciousness, this thread, . . . .
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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It's a famous David Bowie lyric. That's all.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Here’s a great example of the conflagration of mind-body, material-spiritual, objective-subjective, free will-determinism issues.
I am focussed on the strangeness, Mike. Thanks for your contribution.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Wonder if any of you watched this. It was delightful:
I did. I enjoyed it.
I have always been a big fan of strange and anomalous.
I was at a friends house for dinner and he and his wife were working on a jigsaw puzzle. One of those without a picture to tell you what you are making. I thought of it as a quaint expression of questions like, "what is mind?"
It got me thinking. How do we solve these puzzles? From the edges and work to the middle. All pieces are used. It might not seem useful at first, but it does have a position. We are never left with extra pieces. Then I realized that it was not a good example. Oh well, at least it made me think.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Wonder if any of you watched this.
Didn't recognize it at first, but I read the book years ago. It was wonderful.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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here's about as much anti-strangeness as you can pack into a single particle....
Well, your fingers weave quick minarets
Speak in secret alphabets
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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(Always with the zingers, MH2. I feel you, man. I must really rub you wrong.)
DMT:
Mott the Hoople was GREAT! Whatdatalkingabout, dude? (My god, your post brought back some memory cells back to life.)
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WBraun
climber
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Many many people have committed suicide off the Golden Gate bridge.
Many many people have seen the ghosts of some those suicide jumpers walking on the bridge and driving their car right through them.
Oh .... it's all bullsh!t!!!!
Those people didn't see sh!t, they were smoking swamp gas before they drove over the bridge.
No scientific instrument has measured the subtle material so we scientist know ghost and what to speak of the spiritual soul are all bullsh!t.
We cut the heart open and found no soul, so it's all bullsh!t, as we scientist know.
Yet the mind is pure subtle material.
Scientism ..... the modern scientific way, there's no need for anything but us imperfect modern gross material scientists as the ultimate authority.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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I must really rub you wrong.
No, Mike. I have no ill will for any participant here and feel none directed at me.
I side with Largo calling some of what goes on here, "banter."
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Parent: So what did you do at school today STan?
STan: BANTER LOL
Parent: Shut up
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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I hope you're not calling ME a banterer, MH2. I know I'm not perfect, but a banterer? No way. A punter maybe.
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