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Sean Jones
climber
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Apr 14, 2008 - 03:23am PT
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Ben,
Thanks for the possitive response and throwing your name at the end. Again, sorry I turned into an as#@&%e there. I'm on the east coast quite often. Would love to join you for a couple of beers any time.
Same out here. The door's always open at my home.
Peace,
Sean.
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say-no-to-rap-bolting!
Trad climber
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Apr 14, 2008 - 06:40am PT
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hey sean.
I'm from Europe...
A little bit far away but I'm in California from time to time...
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SteveW
Trad climber
State of confusion
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Apr 14, 2008 - 08:19am PT
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Wow! Up to 1390 posts as I write this--(mine is 1391).
1390 AM is KGNU-AM in Denver/Boulder. Or 88.5 FM in Boulder.
Or even better, http://www.kgnu.org on the www.
Take a listen. Democracy NOW! with Amy Goodman, REAL NEWS,
and GREAT, VARIED, NON MSM music, like bluegrass, real country
(as in Hank Williams Sr., the Louvin Brothers, and more, JAZZ,
African roots music, Reggae, and did I say Bluegrass? Oh, there's more, Blues. Take a listen. and best of all, non-commercial, community radio for Boulder and beyond!!!! (But you won't hear them bashing 'Growing Up'. . . bwaaahhhhhhhh!
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 14, 2008 - 11:20am PT
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This is the thread that has it all. Just about anybody who has an opinion has posted.
Threats have been leveled, beers have been offered. Land managers have been thought
about, trails, trash, and environmental impacts have been mulled over. Folks have
proposed chopping the route, climbing the route, making variations to the
route. I think somebody even offered to climb the route with the FA party, and
although nobody has yet talked about free soloing the route, only time will tell.
And, only time will tell who gets the last word. We were surprised when the count hit 200,
a celebration was held at 600. Somebody stayed up all night to be crowned the One Thousandth.
But the real prize, who will be the last to post.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Apr 14, 2008 - 11:47am PT
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I keep going back and forth on this FA. On one hand doing a top down FA deprived Sean (and everyone else) the adventure and challenge of doing the route ground up. On the other hand, I feel that, within reason, it is up to the FA team to decide how they want to 'establish' a route, especially in regards to leaving a route of high quality and reasonable protection for the rating.
Ealier someone posted asking how would you feel if 6-8 more routes went in on rappel on the SFHD. And I guess I feel that there should be some balance between bold X-rated routes (that almost never get climbed), and routes that have reasonable protection for their grade (e.g. R rated runouts on climbing a number grade or two below the crux rating). If every climb went in as an X-rated scarefest, and the whole face was almost never climbed because of it, I don't think that's the optimum situation.
Sean, although I don't think it was 'required', why didn't you climb the route ground up, then install additional bolts later on rappel? With the thought that went into the route, I would guess that option came up.
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randomtask
climber
North fork, CA
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Apr 14, 2008 - 12:42pm PT
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Wow!!
All I can say is HOLY SH#T!!
I think I'll go climbing now...or is that poor style?
Sean Jones,
I love your routes at Shuteye, and if your in North Fork I'll buy you a beer.
-JR
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Apr 14, 2008 - 02:07pm PT
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Deuce your last post says it best.
Sean, Peace-5.13d
Headwall of Growing Up-5.11d
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Apr 14, 2008 - 04:42pm PT
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I'll just say one last thing (hopefully) on this topic, as really, one has to abide by the old Camp 4 adage, "the only thing that matters is what you've done the day before"; therefore, not having climbed hard stuff in the valley for some time, I really don't have much to say about what people should or shouldn't be doing up there.
But I did want to point out that from my time up there, I saw a very featured face. The wall is glacial polished, but it's also water eroded because of it's low angle, so everywhere there are little nubs and dykes protruding from the face. It's not like the Glacier Point Apron which is merely polished, it's really quite featured, much more so than most of Tuolumne's domes.
Notwithstanding the fact that drilling on lead on small stances is a lost art, I would venture to say that one would be hard pressed to find a 30 foot section of rock up there without any sort of stance at all. The trick, of course, is to link the 30 foot sections. The lower part of the wall is steeper, so there might not be as much potential for new lines there, but above the arch, there's potential for 100's of routes, and despite some of the claims that they would all be Cosgrovesque terrifying and runout routes, I suspect that determined climbers might find otherwise. It would require a combination of skill and luck to find the natural lines with stances (but you wouldn't need the luck if you were willing to preinspect on toprope.)
I just wanted to dispel the notion expressed during this debate that the wall doesn't have any more "reasonable" ground-up potential, for the mighty South Face does, it definitely does.
"On matters of style, swim with the current, on matters of principle, stand like a rock" --Thomas Jefferson
(just can't figure if this is a matter of style or principle...)
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Tired Trad Tales
Trad climber
southern cal
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Apr 14, 2008 - 04:49pm PT
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I think Bachar's list of rules (April 11th post) is a good start. However, like any good contract, it should have a defined period of time. So let us add that the ground-up climbers have their way for 30 years. Then, the sport climbers can take over. The clock started ticking in 1977. Looks like you are in the clear Sean, except that you will need to use a French grade for the upper pitches.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 14, 2008 - 05:24pm PT
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Almost...
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 14, 2008 - 05:25pm PT
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... there.
1400!
[We were off the front page for a minute...what next?]
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Apr 14, 2008 - 06:41pm PT
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Old news always gets buried.
It's over...until we get the TR of Sean's dinner with Coz.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Apr 14, 2008 - 06:49pm PT
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OK, just one more thing.
I've been thinking about how featured the wall looked in Deuce's old first-ever-free-climbing photo. And then he brought it up in his thread.
The wall over there looks very different from the wall I saw on Growing Up. More featured. Looks more stance drillable too, tho hard to tell from the apparent steepness.
It makes me wonder. Deuce, you mentioned lots of water roughening, and that's what I seem to see in your photo. We had initially tried to follow a lesser water streak -- the one that blanked out -- then moved over to in or near an even fainter one.
Where we were it's a lot shinier, slipperier wall. Especially the bottom part of the upper wall. Up higher, more featured. I'm curious, what part of the upper wall was that photo?
It's a very interesting wall.
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BLD
climber
excramento,CA
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Apr 14, 2008 - 06:52pm PT
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I wonder what they will eat and drink? Will they use forks, chopsticks or their dirty hands? Do they like the same style of food?
AH who cares I bet they will have a blast.
B...
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bler
Boulder climber
Alamo, CA
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Apr 14, 2008 - 07:13pm PT
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ethics have changed and always will continue to do so...
same way they changed from the alpine style in the 40's, 50's and 60's to the sport style of the 80's, and now the super protected super hard sport routes and bouldering.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 14, 2008 - 07:29pm PT
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BLD wrote
"I wonder what they will eat and drink? Will they use forks, chopsticks or their dirty hands? Do they like the same style of food? "
Old school would be eating with a piton. Perhaps they could go for "Airplane Rule" : no utensils that you could kill the stewardess with.
;-0
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 14, 2008 - 07:35pm PT
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If they eat ground up, does that mean they can only have hamburger?
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Apr 14, 2008 - 08:15pm PT
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DR-
If I recall correctly, that photo was the pitch below the Triclops.
By the way, a belated congratulations to you and Sean and whoever else was involved, for the new route. Wish I were still climbing that hard to fire up it! Autobahn once had that classic status for a time (now people are probably sketched from all those crappy 1/4" bolts). I'm sure Growing Up will be a very popular hardman's route, and maybe that really is what it's all about, sharing the experience rather than seeking maximum voltage, as it was during my time in Yosemite.
Ciao-
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Apr 15, 2008 - 05:26am PT
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I was looking for some higher resolution photos of the South Face of Half Dome on the web, and I found several good ones on summitpost.org, in the gallery for Half Dome (507 photos of Half Dome are there at present, with the full resolution files available).
http://www.summitpost.org/object_list.php?parent_id=150378&object_type=3
Here are three 600 x 800 crops (photobucket's limit) of the upper slab, down to as far as 800 reaches. They may be useful for visualizing what it might be like to be a first ascender (past or future) contemplating a new route there. They might show something about the texture differences described by Doug in his post above. The upper parts of the routes Lost Again, Growing Up, South Face, and Southern Belle are all in these photos.
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Delhi Dog
Trad climber
Good Question...
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Apr 15, 2008 - 07:20am PT
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I haven't posted since the early hundreds, wow, I should have taken some bets on numbers way earlier...
Cool shots Clint thanks for sharing.
Its been a long time since I felt that close.
Cheers,
DD
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