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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jul 15, 2016 - 07:22am PT
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I think the answer is obvious.
The answer is as plain as the nose on your face, but you can't see it.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jul 15, 2016 - 07:25am PT
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I think the answer is obvious.
The answer is as plain as the nose on your face, but you can't see it.
Just need some stronger firearm control laws and obviously rental truck laws.
Maybe expand the existing Gun Free Zones to include Murder-free zones?
I must contact my legislators for help.
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kattz
climber
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Jul 15, 2016 - 07:37am PT
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I'm surprised people still go to any crowded places at all: being like sitting ducks..
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 15, 2016 - 07:48am PT
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Cragman, outstanding post! Bob, et al,(everyone but Me'n Cragbuddy) are too proud and too arrogant to ever admit they need the grace of God.
Your patriotism, humility, the grace of god and ted cruz et al continue to impress. Keep up the good works gentlemen and thanks for keeping bathrooms safe for real 'merican men.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 15, 2016 - 07:52am PT
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Yes, Katz, I don't get that, either. You can bet I won't be caught standing around in the
middle of the main hall of the Gare du Strasbourg in a few weeks; stand behind pillars,
always give yerself an exit, and maintain yer SA.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Jul 15, 2016 - 09:08am PT
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Robert L posted
These poor people ask, why does all the oil leave their land, but they see little in return?
Was the oil not sold legally at world market prices?
Is their own government not accountable for their return on the sale of oil?
Robert L posted
Decades of colonialism which lead into despotic regimes in the Middle East.
The regimes before colonialism were not despotic?
Robert,
Your experience in the ME gives you a perspective most do not have. I appreciate your thought provoking posts.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 15, 2016 - 09:16am PT
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Yep, the current situation is the result of impotent, weak and useless European half-commie bleeding heart idiot leaders, who're the main terrorist accomplices. The problem is that Europeans are too weakened and brainwashed to defend themselves now. Yes, they need to be armed but they seem to be too weak to realize what they should do to save their countries/incapable of any action. They're literally being decimated as nations by invaders and they can not resist anymore. Europe is done. US is heading the same way, open door policy/runaway immigration will do it in.
Depressing and true. Maybe Theresa May and our next leader can guide us in a new direction. Maybe start by identifying the problem, and chase it down RELENTLESSLY!
Right now our Western leaders are weak. And we're supposed to rely on them to keep us "safe"?
Want to know what they did to hostages in the Bataclan concert hall?
Read this: http://heatst.com/uk/exclusive-france-suppressed-news-of-gruesome-torture-at-bataclan-massacre/
Very graphic. Disgusting. We are at war with demonic forces.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 15, 2016 - 09:23am PT
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I recommend surrendering to our fears, picking a strongman, renouncing our liberties, and blaming the foreigners.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jul 15, 2016 - 09:40am PT
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I recommend surrendering to our fears, picking a strongman, renouncing our liberties, and blaming the foreigners.
What would "renouncing our liberties" mean to you beyond the current state of affairs? What we have at present is already:
* An NSA run amok with essentially no oversight of the people and with them having invaded every tiny detail of our lives.
* A "Patriot" Act (classic double-speak) that is the furthest thing from "patriotic" of any law we've apparently just decided to live with (and that Obama promised to eliminate but then didn't veto the next time it hit his desk). This alone is such a vast undermining of basic liberties that it is only the fact it rarely hits the average citizen that people don't tumble to the fact that it can decimate any of us at any time.
* An industrial-military complex run amok.
* Resounding cries to eliminate due process of law by putting people on lists and then denying them their rights.
* Resounding cries to eliminate basic human rights, such as the right of self defense.
And it goes on and on.
The "Keep us safe!" crowd yells louder and louder, and the ONLY way your government CAN keep us "safe" (major scare-quotes) just is to eliminate our liberties.
You can't have both. Either we're the land of the FREE, which implies the home of the BRAVE; or we're the land of the enslaved, because we're the land of the hand-wringing pussies.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 15, 2016 - 09:40am PT
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This is an interesting perspective, compares France and the United States
Both countries are nations of immigrants, but their approaches to newcomers could not be more different. Come to France, and you're welcomed to the table—if you're willing to speak French, eat French food, and see the world as French people do. (In the last French presidential debate, both candidates fell over each other to assure their people that there would be no halal meat offered in French school cafeterias—a bizarre note to my ear here in New York, where parking rules are suspended for Succoth, Idul-Adha, Good Friday and Diwali, and no one frets.) Assimilation in France is hierarchical, in the sense proposed by Harvard's Jim Sidanius: Success is measured by how close people come to the summit, which is perfect Frenchness.
In the United States, though, assimilation is what Sidanius would call authoritarian. It's not about a standard of culture or conduct or speech. It's just a contract. There are rules, and you're welcome if you adhere to them. What language you speak, what God you worship, aren't relevant. That approach makes for less community but more openness of mind. Put it this way: If someone is acting in a way that is far from a French person's idea of what is French, then said person is most definitely not French. If someone is acting in a way that is far from my idea of what is American, well, hey, you never know. The guy could still be as American as I am, in the eyes of the law and my fellow citizens.
In both nations, then, millions of people feel that it is wrong to be racist, and they make an effort not to appear so (an exquisite sensitivity to the dangers of appearing racist appears to kick in at about age 8 or 9, according to this research). However, the American version of anti-racism includes an obligation to consider how things look to the Other. After all, his view could be just as American as yours. Beverly Hills Cop, after all, made fun of all its characters, not just Eddie Murphy's.
So, you know a joke that makes fun of people of a certain race that isn't yours? In the U.S. you show you are enlightened by not telling it, because you know what seems funny to you could offend someone of a different background. The French version of anti-racism goes the other way: You show you are enlightened by telling the joke, because we're all equally French. We have the same background, so if I'm not offended, how could you be?
In our cautious urge to let all differences have room to breathe, American art and culture can strike the French as flighty and childlike (the way Californians look to the rest of us Americans). In their urge to erase difference, though, the French can look, to us, condescending and close-minded. Sometimes I think the French want to say to Americans, "just because it's strange and new doesn't mean it's great." And Americans want to say to the French, "Could you just appreciate that for what it is, instead of having to make it French?"
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 15, 2016 - 09:41am PT
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We are in agreement, mb.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jul 15, 2016 - 09:45am PT
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Glad to hear it, db.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Jul 15, 2016 - 09:50am PT
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Good post MB1
Security and liberty are a zero sum game, watch out what you wish for.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 15, 2016 - 09:54am PT
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because we're the land of the hand-wringing pussies.
Did you know that in France, and most of Europe, it is illegal to carry a folding knife
with a locking blade? How the hell are you supposed to cut the cheese?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jul 15, 2016 - 09:57am PT
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Security and liberty are a zero sum game
Nicely summarized.
Oh, and I find that I have an increasing capacity to cut the cheese, often without warning or desire.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 15, 2016 - 10:02am PT
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How the hell are you supposed to cut the cheese?
Heh-heh...heh-heh-heh...heh-heh...
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jul 15, 2016 - 10:42am PT
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You can't have both. Either we're the land of the FREE, which implies the home of the BRAVE; or we're the land of the enslaved, because we're the land of the hand-wringing pussies.
I'm going to quote MB several times today...
Is there a fee?
I testified once in front of local legislators that the Constitution and Bill of Rights conveyed Freedom, not safety.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jul 15, 2016 - 10:55am PT
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the Constitution and Bill of Rights conveyed Freedom, not safety
I'll quote you back, so the fees cancel out.
Spot on!
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Jul 15, 2016 - 11:55am PT
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The President of the United States can't do anything about an angry Tunisan with a truck and a gun. Disparaging our fine military men and women who are fighting the terrorists threat every day accomplishes nothing, except to further divide us.
Thanks to our military and President Obama, ISIS is seeing its territory shrink, its caliphate collapse and its finances dry up.
All a deranged person needs to create havoc is an easily-obtained weapon (or truck) and a soft target. Sending our military to occupy another mid-east country is not the solution, as evidenced by recent history.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Jul 15, 2016 - 12:04pm PT
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Madbolter eagerly quoted the Constitution and Bill of Rights conveyed Freedom, not safety
Interesting. Here's the preamble to the Constitution:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
And a lot of section 8 sure seems to be devoted to safety. I mean I appreciate the idea that security and liberty are constantly at odds with each other, but that is also because liberty requires a degree of security. The issue here doesn't seem to be liberty vs security but WHOSE liberty and security. Millions of Americans seem more than happy to make themselves feel more secure at the expense of liberty for religious and racial minorities but not at the expense of their personal sense of freedom.
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