Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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crunch

Social climber
CO
May 20, 2014 - 01:42pm PT
Larry Nelson, you are almost correct. Skepticism by itself is a blunt instrument, easily manipulated.

Better is:

Critical thinking is essential to science.
Critical thinking is poison to political causes.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 20, 2014 - 02:18pm PT
Global warming is a hoax. The science is incomplete.

You can't see or feel or hear radio waves. They don't exist.

Aerodynamics was poorly understood in 1900. Ergo the Wright Bros flight was a flight of fancy.

In 1940's no one was certain a nuclear weapon would work. Ergo the Manhattan Project was never going to produce a bomb.

We don't fully understand how chaotic processes like tornados and hurricanes develop. Ergo they don't happen and we can't do anything about them. After all there were 4 paths predicted for Hurricane Sandy. What a waste of time it was for anyone (myself included) to prepare for it.

We really don't know when or where the next big quake is gonna hit California! Strengthening highway bridges is a waste of taxpayer $. Re-building schools is just a conspiracy to raise taxes. Improved building codes for houses? Gummint interference!

Mammoth is rising a fraction of an inch a year on top of its magma dome. Or is that a myth?

It's all a conspiracy. Right Chief?
monolith

climber
SF bay area
May 20, 2014 - 02:58pm PT
El Niño affected pre-Columbian Incas and MAY have led to the demise of the Moche and other pre-Columbian Peruvian cultures.

A recent study SUGGESTS a strong El-Niño effect between 1789 and 1793 caused poor crop yields in Europe, which in turn helped touch off the French Revolution.

LOL,Chief.

You sure don't mind uncertainty if you think it helps your cause.

And why would you be trusting those egotistical scientists in the first place?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
May 20, 2014 - 03:00pm PT
Been away for a few days, starting a little vacation home on a five acre lower Talkeetna range parcel fifteen hundred feet above the terminus of the Matanuska glacier. Tremendous view of the Chugach beyond, has road and airstrip access, many opportunities for recreation including; mountaineering, nearby easy access sport rockclimbing, white water rafting, fishing, hunting, heli-skiing, snowmaching, etc. etc.Sounds like a sales pitch because it is. I'll be selling four fractional ownership shares and may post ongoing activity on the what are you building thread. Anyway Forty is losing a grip on his usual good natured humor. Why Forty, getting frustrated that others are not accepting the idiotic programming that is a neccessity for your ongoing employment? You'll never turn or sucessfully marginalize the Chief, he's simply much smarter than you and other clowns like that drunken example of aging irrelavance-BK. Pfool- you don't buy those propaganda streams as gospel, do you? Your naivete disappoints me.

HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 20, 2014 - 03:50pm PT
That great intellect Pat Sajak
I now believe global warming alarmists are unpatriotic racists knowingly misleading for their own ends. Good night.
Arm in arm with Chief

(how did "racists" get in there?) WTF?
Perhaps Chief knows.
raymond phule

climber
May 20, 2014 - 03:51pm PT

Pfool- you don't buy those propaganda streams as gospel, do you? Your naivete disappoints me.

O sh#t, rick sumner is disappointed in me... that really hurts... or maybe not if I think about it...
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
May 20, 2014 - 06:44pm PT
Don't forget to pump as much CO2 into air as you can everyday.
Simply because of the real risk of an ice-age burying Canada in mile
thick glaciers and forcing them all to move down here is just scary.
What if they moved in next door!

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 20, 2014 - 09:37pm PT
http://www.thepiratescove.us/2014/05/20/if-all-you-see-1135/
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2014 - 09:42pm PT
From:

I now believe global warming alarmists are unpatriotic racists knowingly misleading for their own ends.


To:

WASHINGTON (AP) — Once again, the world hit record heat levels. The average global temperature last month tied the hottest April on record four years ago.

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration on Tuesday say last month's average temperature was 58.1 degrees Fahrenheit (14.5 degrees Celsius). That was 1.39 degrees F (0.77 C) warmer than the average last century.

The last time the globe's monthly temperature was cooler than normal was February 1985.

NOAA scientist Jessica Blunden said April's heat was driven especially by Siberia and Eurasia. She said the United States and Canada were the few exceptions. Canada was a bit cooler than normal and the United States was a tad warmer than normal.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2014 - 09:52pm PT
Rignot said that melting in the section of West Antarctica that his team had studied could cause global sea levels to rise by four feet over the course of a couple of centuries. Since the disappearance of some of its major glaciers could quite possibly destabilize the entire ice sheet, the ultimate sea level rise from West Antarctica, he said, could be triple that.


Vs.

There might be some melting in 1,000 years ...


Would you say that's a misrepresentation of the study?



And Sketch, this one is for you:

Of the many inane arguments that are made against taking action on climate change, perhaps the most fatuous is that the projections climate models offer about the future are too uncertain to justify taking steps that might inconvenience us in the present. The implicit assumption here is that the problem will turn out to be less serious than the models predict ...

But the unfortunate fact about uncertainty is that the error bars always go in both directions. While it is possible that the problem could turn out to be less serious than the consensus forecast, it is equally likely to turn out to be more serious. In fact, it increasingly appears that, if there is any systemic bias in the climate models, it’s that they understate the gravity of the situation. In an interesting paper that appeared in the journal Global Environmental Change, a group of scholars, including Naomi Oreskes, a historian of science at Harvard, and Michael Oppenheimer, a geoscientist at Princeton, note that so-called climate skeptics frequently accuse climate scientists of “alarmism” and “overreacting to evidence of human impacts on the climate system.” But, when you actually measure the predictions that climate scientists have made against observations of how the climate has already changed, you find the exact opposite: a pattern “of under- rather than over-prediction” emerges. The scholars attribute this bias to the norms of scientific discourse: “The scientific values of rationality, dispassion, and self-restraint tend to lead scientists to demand greater levels of evidence in support of surprising, dramatic, or alarming conclusions.” They call this tendency “erring on the side of least drama,” or E.S.L.D. for short.



Hmmm right-wing blog says the media is over-reporting the seriousness of climate change while Princeton and Harvard scientists say the opposite. Who is Sketch gonna believe??


Haahaahaahaa, why the blog of course!
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 21, 2014 - 12:12am PT
http://www.iflscience.com/environment/antarctic-rate-ice-loss-double-previous-estimate

I suppose there's one thing I wish for. It would be great if the ignorant idiot deniers lived at sea level and were upside down on their mortgage. Maybe a little bit of reality would do something about their appetite for denial.

One thing I do find particularly telling is that in the same breath the deniers claim that AGCC isn't real and that we can't afford to mitigate it. IT's the coupling of the denying of real science to how it plays out economically that's so sweet. The sooner the clown car drives off the cliff the better.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2014 - 10:01am PT
You quote a blog to invalidate my supposed reliance on a blog?

I didn't quote a "blog" Sketch, try again.

So, where is the word "might" (as in "might be some melting") in any of the articles you can find on the WAIS? Ya know, "might" implies it could go either way. In all the articles I've read, it's pretty dead certain that the ice will melt.

Sketch, a grasp at straws, and still comes up empty handed!


In other news:

May 19, 2014
Yosemite Announces Fire Season


Yosemite fire managers have announced that the 2014 Fire Season will begin on Monday, May 19, 2014. Fire season officially begins when seasonal firefighting equipment and personnel are in place, prepared and ready to respond. Additionally, grasses and other vegetation at the lower elevations have begun to dry out. This year, vegetation is drying out faster than average due to the low snowpack the park received over the last three winter seasons, making for fire danger above average for this time of year.

The park is currently transitioning to fire season preparedness and fire resources will be available seven days per week for suppression efforts within the park. In park fire resources for the season include: fire management officials, four Type 3 wildland engines, one helicopter, and one hand crew.

In preparation for the fire season, the park will begin defensible space inspections throughout Yosemite’s communities, including Aspen Valley, Hodgdon Meadows, Foresta, El Portal, Yosemite Valley, and Wawona starting on Monday, June 9. Residents and homeowners are urged to clear a defensible space of 100 feet or to property lines around homes and other structures in an effort to reduce the risk of fire hazards.

With the official declaration of fire season, pile burning will be discontinued throughout the park until further notice.

The fire potential is elevated statewide and has moved peak fire season conditions earlier than predicted. Yosemite National Park urges local residents and visitors to “Please be Fire Safe,” when residing and visiting the park and other public lands. Special attention should be given when departing campgrounds, backcountry camping sites, and picnic areas to make sure all campfires have been appropriately doused with water.

For more information about fire in Yosemite National Park, please visit http://www.nps.gov/yose/parkmgmt/firemanagement.htm
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2014 - 10:26am PT
Why yes, I do have a comment on that, Sketch.

What is the difference between the "1000 years" in your cute little cartoon and the 1,000 years mentioned in the article you quote?

Allow me to spell it out for you: Your cartoon implies there might, or might not, be some melting in 1,000 years. The article says the ice sheet might collapse in as little as 200 years, or up to 1,000.


The entire ice sheet collapsing vs. "might be some melting." Your cartoon completely mis-characterizes the situation.


As for the article I quoted, it's a partial re-post of the New Yorker article posted a few pages back. Try to keep up.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2014 - 10:41am PT
After my last post, Sketch writes:

What's the source of your C&P?



That one got me good.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2014 - 10:43am PT
DMT, Really, the size of the Grand Canyon???


I wonder if the rock is any good, could be some killer routes there (once the ice is gone, I suppose).
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2014 - 10:50am PT
Run away, coward.


Really Sketch? That bad, eh?


It's funny, I researched your un-attributed quote and easily found the source:


West Antarctic ice sheet collapse unstoppable
http://www.dw.de/west-antarctic-ice-sheet-collapse-unstoppable/a-17632087

(An article you should read, BTW).

I found the source by cutting a discernible portion of your quote and Googled the citation.



But I'm not asking you to go through all that trouble. Instead, all I ask is that you read my reply to your post where you originally ask where I got the C&P. There, you'll see I directly say from where I got my quote.

This is the point where I could call you a silly name, but I'll just let you marinate in your idiocy for a bit.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
May 21, 2014 - 12:07pm PT
Richard B. Alley, a climate scientist at Pennsylvania State University who was not involved in the new research but has studied the polar ice sheets for decades, said he found the new papers compelling. Though he had long feared the possibility of ice-sheet collapse, when he learned of the new findings, “it shook me a little bit,” Dr. Alley said.

He added that while a large rise of the sea may now be inevitable from West Antarctica, continued release of greenhouse gases will almost certainly make the situation worse. The heat-trapping gases could destabilize other parts of Antarctica as well as the Greenland ice sheet, potentially causing enough sea-level rise that many of the world’s coastal cities would eventually have to be abandoned.

“If we have indeed lit the fuse on West Antarctica, it’s very hard to imagine putting the fuse out,” Dr. Alley said. “But there’s a bunch more fuses, and there’s a bunch more matches, and we have a decision now: Do we light those?”




http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/13/science/earth/collapse-of-parts-of-west-antarctica-ice-sheet-has-begun-scientists-say.html





For those that champion the opinion that the state of the science and the costs of mitigating climate change do not warrant immediate action, this is just one more serious blow to their specious argument.

At some point we need to collectively wake up and ask just how much is our ignoring of climate change going to cost—not future generations, but us, here and now.

We are on a totally self-imposed trajectory to a dangerous, enormously costly future that could have been avoided at a much lower cost had we acted in a prudent manner over the past 30 years. Our wait and see approach is proving irresponsibly and irreversibly ruinous.

Nature does not wait on economic policy, and humans, to mature. Climate change is not going to wait for us to make adult decisions, we have had our chance.

What about that do we not understand? Everything.

Somehow we think we stand above and beyond nature. Too bad for us, and the innocent future.

Michael Bain
Glorieta, New Mexico
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2014 - 12:55pm PT
K-man - I keep asking you for the source of your C&P because you claimed it wasn't from a blog. We both know it was.


Sketch, I told you where I got my citation from. Why are you trying to twist my words? If the New Yorker is a blog, you are an idiot.

Now kindly GFY.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
May 21, 2014 - 02:23pm PT
more than 2,500m....That is almost half a mile, DMT

LOLZ. Yeah, if by "almost half a mile" you meant over 1.5 miles.

The rank innumeracy is disturbing, if comical.
little Z

Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
May 21, 2014 - 04:51pm PT
where do I go to see the sock puppet reenactment? hope I didn't miss it.
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