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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Is the following what the OWS people are concerned about?
It was done for the International Monetary Fund, with sources such as the CIA and the Economist - all sound conservative bodies. No doubt a little out of date, given that statistics almost always are, but not very.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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It looks like you must agree with me, Anders, about my assertion that it's not a capitalism problem here, but a gov't problem.
Look at where we scored badly and then look at my previous assertions.
That 'food insecurity' category is really lame though. They 'asked' people??? Kinda telling of the overall chart, IMO.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Lolli
Don't try making sense. Their minds are made up.
You observation is at once astute, damning and embarrassing to intelligent Americans.
The Republicans have become nastier and more fanatical every year since the 90's.
I say fanatical with hesitation because I don't believe any kind of polite discourse is helped by rude labels. Unfortunately in this case I think it's true. Since Clinton was re-elected in 1996, the Republicans have consistently lied, distorted facts, whipped up religious conservatism and appealed to the baser instincts of Americans. The unceasing (see Rick Perry last week) questioning of Obama's birth is the most ridiculous but unfortunately not the most destructive example.
If you'd like an impartial callout of lies and misrepresentations of all sides, see factcheck.org.
http://www.factcheck.org/
Unfortunately the Republicans (and occasionally the Democrats) can generate salacious and sensational claims faster than responsible people can keep up with.
We have indeed dropped to a sorry state of affairs.
And plenty of people on all sides in this silly little "forum" are guilty of making ridiculous, unsubstantiated and logically fallacious claims. Many them refuse to actually debate. When questioned about their facts or reasoning they just vomit one more bowl of tripe. I won't stoop to naming names.....yet.
There are plenty of very bright, responsible and well meaning reporters, commentators, economists and political scientists on all sides. Unfortunately the howling hyenas drown them out.
We are digging our own graves with our insolent preference for ignorant obstinacy over intelligent discourse and compromise. The desire to win at all costs. And I don't mean campaign $ costs. I mean the cost to society when our democracy runs amok.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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And don't forget to give me my "it was manufactured by a child slave" discount.
You (hopefully) and I know how to make us competitive again. It's a matter of political will.
Ironically, the same people at the OWS protests are largely resposible for off-shoring.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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...and a good conservative would have bet on them dying.
Then bribed doctors to withhold treatment.
How does it feel to be an utter as#@&%e? He is conservative and is helping people like most conservatives do. Not because he has to, or gets money for it, but because he cares for sick children.
You, sir, are a dick.
What is it with USA and the amount of people in prison? It's more than twice as high as the next country? How come is that?
Too many gov't regs.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
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And don't forget to give me my "it was manufactured by a child slave" discount.
Those "slave children" will own this country soon unless we turn things around. Your argument is tired and outdated. Cheap labor is the only tool emerging markets have traditionally had to compete, but as they acquire skills and knowledge, they increase their standard of living. If you were alive in the 70s you remember "made in Taiwan", or in the 60s "made in Hong Kong" or "made in Japan".
You also don't seem to understand that the alternative for these "slave children" is lower pay or even starvation. Foreign companies pay TWICE as much on average as domestic companies in emerging markets.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
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But what you state above is wrong. Most of those countries are well regulated in financial respect. It varies widely among them, though.
No, economic freedom is freedom from restrictive business and financial regulation. That is what the list shows- it is based on factors like the time it takes to start a business, etc.
Regulations are necessary to smooth the rough edges of capitalism, but by and large countries over-regulate, and there is a reason for this - creating barriers allows politicians to charge tolls to get around them. Excessive regulation goes hand in hand with corruption.
Also, Norway and Sweden are great countries to live in, no argument there. But they are also somewhat special cases because of oil. Norway is the 3rd biggest oil exporter, and they have been very smart about how they use the money. Sweden does not benefit from this directly but free trade with Norway gives them comparative advantage in every other industry.
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Jorroh
climber
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'No, economic freedom is freedom from restrictive business and financial regulation"
Bullsh#t. Regulation often confers greater economic freedom to individuals in their dealing with corporations and other much larger entities.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Regulations are necessary to smooth the rough edges of capitalism, but by and large countries over-regulate, and there is a reason for this - creating barriers allows politicians to charge tolls to get around them. Excessive regulation goes hand in hand with corruption.
Also, Norway and Sweden are great countries to live in, no argument there. But they are also somewhat special cases because of oil. Norway is the 3rd biggest oil exporter, and they have been very smart about how they use the money. Sweden does not benefit from this directly but free trade with Norway gives them comparative advantage in every other industry.
Good points.
Jorrah is an obvious troll commie.
Next...any connection???
http://www.jorrah.ca/
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Jorroh
climber
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Bluering said
"Good points.
Jorrah is an obvious troll commie.
Next...any connection???
http://www.jorrah.ca/"
thanks for the laugh Bluering..you are truly one of the dumbest people I've ever run across. Who's this Jorrah guy by the way?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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bluering may also think that Charlie Chaplin was a commie, and J.E. Hoover and Joseph McCarthy were great Americans.
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Jorroh
climber
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"and they have been very smart about how they use the money."...thats because they are what you call Socialist, they make collective decisions about national priorities.
While we were pissing away our Capital on Pets.com, useless giant mergers, miles of unused fibre networks, and endless condo complexes and strip malls that now sit empty and rotting..what were they doing with theirs? education, infrastructure , basic research, alternative energy, Health care..etc etc. But hey at least you get to call them socialists, that must comfort you crackaddict.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
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"and they have been very smart about how they use the money."...thats because they are what you call Socialist, they make collective decisions about national priorities.
While we were pissing away our Capital on Pets.com, useless giant mergers, miles of unused fibre networks, and endless condo complexes and strip malls that now sit empty and rotting..what were they doing with theirs? education, infrastructure , basic research, alternative energy, Health care..etc etc. But hey at least you get to call them socialists, that must comfort you crackaddict.
The larger European union is socialist also, do you know how many jobs they created from 1980-1992? None. And do I even need to bring Cuba, North Korea, East Germany, the Soviet Union, etc. Into the conversation? These countries make (or made, for most of them) collective decisions about national priorities also.
I guess the economic "debt spiral" Europe is in right now is due to Wall Street fat cats and deregulation also though, couldn't be from an over-sized public sector, could it? Nah....
While we were pissing away our Capital on Pets.com, useless giant mergers, miles of unused fibre networks, and endless condo complexes and strip malls that now sit empty and rotting
Yes these are the unfortunate results of government monetary policy. Although not all of these bubbles were bad: the fiber optic networks across the Atlantic has made overseas communications nearly free, whereas in the late 80s very few people could afford to call out of state, let alone overseas. And hey, the sock puppet was fun to ridicule.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
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An aside:
Starting today, many prison inmates in the USA who received disproportionately harsh sentences for crack cocaine will be released and/or have their sentences reduced. In the USA, powdered cocaine is generally used by more affluent white people who can afford the high cost, while crack cocaine is more generally used by poor individuals of color. Thus as a form of class and racial discrimination, the USA instituted legislation and sentencing guidelines to give much longer prison sentences to those convicted with crack cocaine vs. those convicted of powdered coke.
I heard this on the radio this morning. I tend to believe that the vast majority of Americans are inclusive, I have met very few people I would actually call racist. But it is absolutely appalling that it has taken so long for this to be corrected.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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While we were pissing away our Capital on Pets.com, useless giant mergers, miles of unused fibre networks, and endless condo complexes and strip malls that now sit empty and rotting..
How about them green jobs, eh? Don't forget that, but of course you won't mention that. Or the "shovel-ready jobs" promised by the liar-in-chief!
Wes? You are a hateful and despicable man. Why do you you dwell on pain I overcame? You havereal issues, man. Instead of tackling arguements I bring up that you cannot defend, you resort to attempted personal insults???
You offer no validility to your arguements. You just come off as an as#@&%e. I hope you can climb out of that chasm of hate. Pretty sad.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
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"While we were pissing away our Capital on Pets.com, useless giant mergers, miles of unused fibre networks, and endless condo complexes and strip malls that now sit empty and rotting.."
How about them green jobs, eh? Don't forget that, but of course you won't mention that. Or the "shovel-ready jobs" promised by the liar-in-chief!
LOL true. Even pets.com created some real, albeit temporary, jobs.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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What's amazing to me is the lack of scrutiny on this administration compared to the former. The transparency 'the One' campaigned on. The MSM is derelect in their jobs absolutely.
No doubt about it.
I would ask anyone to try to despute that claim. I f*#king dare you!!!!
Is this guy more transparent than Bush>?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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What's telling is the lack of replies to this...
Prolly out in a NF 4-season tent "protesting" corporate greed.
Idiots...
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Crackaddict said This is the problem with government economists - they are "bad economists" according to Von Mises - they see what is openly visible but they ignore the hidden. The same with employment - when the Government creates a job, they see that as an increase in employment, but they do not see what is lost by taking money out of the private sector.
And people who have government jobs never reintroduce that money back into the private sector again? They don't buy things? Do they live in government run cities eating government produced food or something?
If that government job is used to protect forests that are then used to attract tourists is it "taking money out of the private sector?" If that government job is used to promote American business or protect American consumers from price gouging or ensure that Americans aren't eating unsafe food that forces them to go to the hospital or become disabled is that "taking money out of the private sector?" Where is this black hole exactly?
Here in New Hampshire, the "no tax raises" tea party legislature raised taxes on hospitals to ensure they didn't "take money out of the private sector" and it cost hundreds of middle class Yankees their jobs while ensuring that the people of northern New England got crappier health care (which in turn costs them more money and risks their well being). I guess those people can feel comfortable knowing that their families are going to have to move or find new, much lower paying jobs because their old salaries are staying safely in the private sector.
Crackaddict continued:
Note that the "ignore this" part of that photo all took place under tax rates and fiscal policies that would be considered solidly liberal by today's liberals and pure insanity by today's conservatives. You are, in fact, making an argument for what you are deriding as "socialism" in that cartoon.
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