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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 22, 2009 - 11:19am PT
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I can see the day crew's back on duty. Time for me to call it a night!
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Oct 22, 2009 - 11:19am PT
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Klimmer, you completely missed the mother ships!
They're all over the place, hidden in plain sight!
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Gene
Social climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 11:28am PT
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Thank you, jstan, for the levity.
Now back to our regularly scheduled restating of unchanging opinions ad infinitum.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 11:31am PT
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Skip- Thank you for the insight on this remarkable man!! (Christopher Hitchins)
He is certainly gifted and I admire his determination! I am very curious about this individual and greatly appreciate your posting the various sites in which I can come to know, and hopefully get a better understanding of him.
No doubt a brilliant mind and thinker, bold and in your face, committed. We need more people in this world like him. Who stand for their convictions. Pray that nothing tragic befalls him!! Tagging in the enemy's camp, this is one brave soul!! Sorry to here about the drinking though!
Like its been said, what the enemy meant for bad,the Lord can turn around for the good!! If that occurs. I hope it is done out of love!! Because that is the way He would do it!!
Thanks for checking me!! Some times I forget that I was once blind at one time time. And we all have our moments of hampered sight!!
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jstan
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 11:43am PT
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Jan:
It will be much better once we get you onto a 24 hour cycle.
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Gene
Social climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 12:00pm PT
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Fattrad/Walling '12
That's enough to get believers and non-believers to shout "Dear God!"
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Oct 22, 2009 - 12:01pm PT
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Jan - interesting stuff!
Genghis Khan was believed, in each of his campaigns, to woo and win over the most beautiful woman in the area to take for his wife.
Recent genetic studies have found that 8% of the men in what was his empire, and .5% of men all over the world contain a genetic marker in the Y chromosome that can be traced back to him. Either some traits of his, or of those beautiful and intelligent women he married were positively selected for - it's the only way they could become so widespread in under a thousand years.
GO
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 12:10pm PT
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jstan-
Back in the mid 80's, one of my best friends saved someones life, who had choked on a piece of steak at a restaurant in L.A. by also successfully performing the 'Hienlick maneuver'.
I congratulated him, expressed that I would love to learn the life saving maneuver, and asked him to demonstrate it on me.
He refused!!
I've always wondered why!
Thanks for clearing that one up for me!!
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Oct 22, 2009 - 12:11pm PT
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Terry - you do realize that you just posted a link showing how the rigorous process of scientific peer review wins out over beliefs found in popular books reputed to be true? This despite the fact that the beliefs found in the popular book may be more attractive.
GO
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Oct 22, 2009 - 12:18pm PT
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TriL777: Here is Chris Hitchins' website: http://www.hitchensweb.com/
BTW, your story is remarkable but I missed the part where Jesus actually manifested himself in a way that was objectively measurable. From a non-theistic pov, you were fortunate to have escaped from an alleged psychopath by means that appeared magical to you at the time. This sounds like it happened long before there were social services that might have helped you with the trauma you experienced. You had to go it alone, and you made a choice to invest the incident with supernatural overtones. All well and good, you own the experience and have every right to base your view of it on what worked for you.
It's about what works and what doesn't. In contrast to faith, science draws no absolutely final conclusions on this. Ed H. has been saying this all along. From a non-theistic world view, the ultimate rational for religious interpretations of natural events lies in their value to society, and unfortunately the report card on that is ambiguous, and sadly far from the assertion that everyone else needs to have the same "enlightenment" as any particular spiritual tradition might happen to inform. Today, that smugness merely annoys atheists. Historically, it has led to hideous outcomes for countless non-believers.
"Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics,
And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
And the Hindus hate the Muslims,
And everybody hates the Jews."
 Tom Lehrer
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Oct 22, 2009 - 12:27pm PT
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JSTAN SAID:
John:
Unfortunately in the last few years the really distant survey of, I believe Type II supernovae, have indicated the expansion of the universe is accelerating not decelerating. "Dark Energy" is being mumbled but there will be some hand waving for a few more years.
But it does appear there may never be a big crunch.
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You'll have to take that up with Hawkings, who wrote that quote I quoted. The newer Dark Energy theory (I stay up on this stuff) follows:
“Dark energy is this idea that not only is the universe expanding, dark energy is actually making that expansion happen even faster,” said Marla Geha, as assistant professor of astronomy at Yale University. “The dark energy will actually continue the expansion of the universe forever, so there probably will not be a Big Crunch if we have the numbers right.”
But the continuous expansion would have other consequences. Over tens of billions of years, the galaxies that we see around us would get farther and farther away, making the universe more of a lonely place."
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However, in "A Briefer History of Time," we stil see "imaginary time" holding out, which Hawking relates to "being."
What do you suppose he means??
JL
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Oct 22, 2009 - 12:30pm PT
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WB wrotejstan wrote "Is it also free from the sensation of drawing in a breath of cool clean fresh air?"
And in the next instant the sensation will be to draw in the putrid stench of industrialization.
Along with whatever your Vedic religion is, this is also a classic argument made by Christianity, and it bugs the sh#t out of me. I suspect it's rooted in the fact that for many people, life really isn't very pleasant. Certainly, Christianity flourished in the dark ages, when most Europeans were little more than paid slaves for the local baron.
My problem with it is that it treats this world as a "vale of tears" - something you just have to get through in order to get to the "real" or "heavenly" or "eternal" world. This leads to the devaluation of the actual world we live in, and, I suspect, is part of why so many treat it so badly.
Of all my concerns with religion, this is the area where I most wish things could be different. I don't care if you believe in Jesus, Mohammed, Krishna, the Buddha, or God. But dammit, I really wish you could accept that this is the one world we have, and if we don't cherish it, we're all f*#ked. Teaching our children that the world is made of sin, that it's degraded, decadent, and dirty, is like a teacher telling a kid he's stupid and will never amount to much. It's a disgusting habit that I wish we could rid ourselves of.
GO
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Terry
climber
Spokane
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Oct 22, 2009 - 12:32pm PT
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Go Climb wrote:
"Terry - you do realize that you just posted a link showing how the rigorous process of scientific peer review wins out over beliefs found in popular books reputed to be true? This despite the fact that the beliefs found in the popular book may be more attractive"
Yup. I'm honest about that as I try to be in all things. However, the irony of this thread's title was just to much to let slide. But I am the one who is wrong and has egg on his face so to speak. This article was about Ida, not Ardi.
However
I do have a beef in that the media in particular loves to use 'science' to push an agenda. Documentaries were broadcast about "IDA the missing link' when many scientists believed otherwise.
So much of science is based on assumption - it has to be since we don't know all things and have to make assumptions to hopefully get to the truth. As skipt pointed out science is is the wrong hammer to use to disprove the existence of God.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Oct 22, 2009 - 12:37pm PT
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And vice-versa. That's the point of the thread title.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 01:04pm PT
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cintune
Thank you so much for taking the time to read my story and offer sentiment.
It surly is a sad state of affairs, regarding all that has occurred, in the name of one man that lived so long ago.
Its not what I know, or have read about, and have experienced from Him.
But I certainly regret allot of the things I have done. But I was the one to blame not Him. Unfortunately He is the one who has been tarnished because of my hypocrisy.
Yes I am guilty, please don't blame Him.
There is a dark side and a light side and I look to the light. He is the light in me, illuminating the dark places of my soul (bitterness,despair, envy,hate,jealousy etc.) Replacing it with peace and love.
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midarockjock
climber
USA
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Oct 22, 2009 - 01:13pm PT
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cintune,
Why do you find what I said to be bizarre? I know what the acronyms
are.
Some ISSN are just what I said, and so are some ISBN as in this link,
http://besaw.webs.com
caveat.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 01:14pm PT
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But the soul is missing from their Evolution thus their theory is incomplete.
The soul is the real missing link.
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Oct 22, 2009 - 01:14pm PT
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Dr F wrote: Terry, the Discovery link is about "Ida", not "Ardi"
Ida is a completely different creature, the link between primates and other forms
Ardi still is a missing link for Man to ape like creature
The whole term of "missing link" as it's used in popular culture has no validity in modern evolutionary science as I understand it. The term means a transitionary animal between the other large apes and us. However it is based on the belief that we are descended from the other large apes, which is not actually true - rather, we and the other great apes share a common ancestor.
If you want to re-define "missing link" as the last common ancestor between humans and their closest living relative (the chimpanzee), neither Ardi nor Ida fits.
Although if you want to re-define the term to simply mean a transitional form in human evolution, Ardi is a magnificent case. She walked upright, but still lived in trees. She has flat feet like us, but a grasping big toe like the other great apes. In short, falling about halfway between us and our last common ancestor with the chimpanzee, she shows some really cool similarities with us. And some of the radically different things from us (like the grasping big toe) are probably shared with what that ancestor looked like. Pretty cool!
GO
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 01:23pm PT
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We all come from God, the same ancestor, the same father.
aham bija-pradah pita: “I am the seed giving father"
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