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JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jan 15, 2016 - 03:54pm PT
Escopeta, the railroads could not carry anything without governmental involvement, because they would never be able to acquire the required right-of-way in private transactions. Acquisition of transportation rights of way, whether for transportation of electricity, freight or people runs into intractable monopoly problems if the carrier must rely solely in market transactions unaided by governmental intervention.

And Ken, I'm still having real trouble with your argument. I assume I'm misunderstanding you, because your argument seems to be that I can't know the POTUS lied because I can't possibly know what he did or did not know when he said "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan." If that's the argument, then we might as well strike "lie" from the vocabulary, because we can't possibly know what anyone else knows when they speak. Accordingly, I must be misunderstanding your argument.

My argument remains that that the basic requirements of ACA-compliant plans were a major issue in the legislation. If Obama didn't know that at least some existing plans would not qualify under ACA, he'd have to be dumber than a rock, and we both know that's not true (if we can discern truth. See previous paragraph). There were - and remain - major political battles over what ACA-compliant plans were required to cover (see, e.g., U.S. v. Little Sisters of the Poor). If all existing plans would remain compliant, why all the wrangling?

The evidence, particularly in the Forbes article, is incontrovertible that he knew perfectly well that millions of current plans were non-compliant under the ACA, but still said otherwise. That is, unless you're saying he couldn't possibly know that at least out person out of several million would want to keep a non-compliant plan. That argument doesn't pass the straight-face test.

So again, can you explain your argument in a way that meets my concerns?

Thanks.

John
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 15, 2016 - 04:05pm PT
The point is:
What Obama said about keeping your doctor and plan shouldn't be used as a smear campaign that Obama Lied like you did John
Because we kept our Doctors, and we Kept our Insurance, the plan may have changed a little
others had different experiences, so it was true to some extent.

and using this a lie compared to the Bush WMD in Iraq lie,
you lost all perspective when it comes to lies

EVERY Republican in office says Climate Change is Hoax, that trickle down works, that rasing the minimum wage will hurt the economy, that we are a Christian nation, that we should have prayer in school, will make abortion illegal, will cut education funding, take rights away from LGBT and immigrants, throw more people in jail, start new wars, make health care insurance more expensive, will give more land away to foreign interests, sell off our, forests etc
They don't have anything good to offer, not a damn thing
instead they just pander about how bad things are, and how they will just sprinkle their magic dust and fix everything if we elect them

They live in a web of lies

There is no comparison between the lies Hillary and Obama have been pummeled over
Perspective

I fear that few truths can pass your straight face criteria
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jan 15, 2016 - 06:06pm PT
The way I look at is this. If he wasn't straight up lying when he said it then that's an indication that he was so far out of touch of the reality of the proposal that he actually thought it was true.

I'm not sure which I would prefer.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 15, 2016 - 06:25pm PT
The way I look at is this. If Bush wasn't straight up lying when he said that we need to invade Iraq then that's an indication that he was so far out of touch of the reality of the proposal that he actually thought it was true.

I do know what I prefer
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jan 15, 2016 - 06:44pm PT


Two Smoking Guns: FBI on Hillary’s Case
By Andrew P. Napolitano

January 15, 2016 "Information Clearing House" - The federal criminal investigation of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s failure to secure state secrets was ratcheted up earlier this week, and at the same time, the existence of a parallel criminal investigation of another aspect of her behavior was made known. This is the second publicly revealed expansion of the FBI’s investigations in two months.

I have argued for two months that Clinton’s legal woes are either grave or worse than grave. That argument has been based on the hard, now public evidence of her failure to safeguard national security secrets and the known manner in which the Department of Justice addresses these failures.

The failure to safeguard state secrets is an area of the law in which the federal government has been aggressive to the point of being merciless. State secrets are the product of members of the intelligence community’s risking their lives to obtain information.

Before she was entrusted with any state secrets – indeed, on her first full day as secretary of state – Clinton received instruction from FBI agents on how to safeguard them; and she signed an oath swearing to comply with the laws commanding the safekeeping of these secrets. She was warned that the failure to safeguard secrets – known as espionage – would most likely result in aggressive prosecution.

In the cases of others, those threats have been carried out. The Obama Department of Justice prosecuted a young sailor for espionage for sending a selfie to his girlfriend, because in the background of the photo was a view of a sonar screen on a submarine. It prosecuted a heroic Marine for espionage for warning his superiors of the presence of an al-Qaida operative in police garb inside an American encampment in Afghanistan, because he used a Gmail account to send the warning.

It also prosecuted Gen. David Petraeus for espionage for keeping secret and top-secret documents in an unlocked drawer in his desk inside his guarded home. It alleged that he shared those secrets with a friend who also had a security clearance, but it dropped those charges.

The obligation of those to whom state secrets have been entrusted to safeguard them is a rare area in which federal criminal prosecutions can be based on the defendant’s negligence. Stated differently, to prosecute Clinton for espionage, the government need not prove that she intended to expose the secrets.

The evidence of Clinton’s negligence is overwhelming. The FBI now has more than 1,300 protected emails that she received on her insecure server and sent to others – some to their insecure servers. These emails contained confidential, secret or top-secret information, the negligent exposure of which is a criminal act.

One of the top-secret emails she received and forwarded contained a photo taken from an American satellite of the North Korean nuclear facility that detonated a device just last week. Because Clinton failed to safeguard that email, she exposed to hackers and thus to the North Koreans the time, place and manner of American surveillance of them. This type of data is in the highest category of protected secrets.

Last weekend, the State Department released two smoking guns – each an email from Clinton to a State Department subordinate. One instructed a subordinate who was having difficulty getting a document to Clinton that she had not seen by using a secure State Department fax machine to use an insecure fax machine. The other instructed another subordinate to remove the "confidential" or "secret" designation from a document Clinton had not seen before sending it to her. These two emails show a pattern of behavior utterly heedless of the profound responsibilities of the secretary of state, repugnant to her sworn agreement to safeguard state secrets, and criminal at their essence.

Also this past weekend, my Fox News colleagues Katherine Herridge and Pamela Browne learned from government sources that the FBI is investigating whether Clinton made any decisions as secretary of state to benefit her family foundation or her husband’s speaking engagements. If so, this would be profound public corruption.

This investigation was probably provoked by several teams of independent researchers – some of whom are financial experts and have published their work – who have been investigating the Clinton Foundation for a few years. They have amassed a treasure-trove of documents demonstrating fraud and irregularities in fundraising and expenditures, and they have shown a pattern of favorable State Department treatment of foreign entities coinciding with donations by those entities to the Clinton Foundation and their engaging former President Bill Clinton to give speeches.

There are now more than 100 FBI agents investigating Hillary Clinton. Her denial that she is at the core of their work is political claptrap with no connection to reality. It is inconceivable that the FBI would send such vast resources in the present dangerous era on a wild-goose chase.

It is the consensus of many of us who monitor government behavior that the FBI will recommend indictment. That recommendation will go to Attorney General Loretta Lynch, who, given Clinton’s former status in the government and current status in the Democratic Party, will no doubt consult the White House.

If a federal grand jury were to indict Clinton for espionage or corruption, that would be fatal to her political career.

If the FBI recommends indictment and the attorney general declines to do so, expect Saturday Night Massacre-like leaks of draft indictments, whistleblower revelations and litigation, and FBI resignations, led by the fiercely independent and intellectually honest FBI Director James Comey himself.

That would be fatal to Clinton’s political career, as well.

Andrew Peter Napolitano is a syndicated columnist whose work appears in numerous publications, such as Fox News, The Washington Times, and Reason.

COPYRIGHT 2016 ANDREW P. NAPOLITANO

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 15, 2016 - 07:01pm PT
FOX News
so we have to assume that it's pure BS
which is a shame, since we have to assume all right wing media is now nothing more than propaganda or some other misinformation campaign


Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jan 15, 2016 - 07:05pm PT
Why do you limit your skepticism to right wing media outlets?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jan 15, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
Why not..?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 15, 2016 - 07:23pm PT
I'm a member of the Skeptic Society
The Skeptics put what science has proven as the truth
The Republicans are the antithesis of everything the Skeptical Society stands for.

THEY ARE the source of the anti-scientific propaganda
They create it, they own it, they promote more smoking, burning more FFs, paying more for health care, all the while telling you that the Gov. is the problem
The Republicans, the right wing extremists, the right wing religious extremists be it Christian or it any religion, and the gun nuts, they are all in the same camp.

You need to be skeptical of everything they say, since it goes against almost all scientific evidence.

The trickle down economics that they say will improve the economy has been scientifically proven to be pure BS. yet they keep saying it is the only way to prosperity. It's a proven lie! They won't acknowledge the truth but instead promote lies over and over again, as if the truth.
That's pure evil in my book of morals
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jan 15, 2016 - 07:23pm PT
Lezarian..Don't over think it..The middle class ( you ) are going to keep getting taxed to subsidize the wealthy..Quit voting Republican if you want this to stop..
Norton

Social climber
Jan 15, 2016 - 07:45pm PT
Quit voting Republican if you want this to stop..

Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jan 15, 2016 - 08:26pm PT
"Quit voting Republican if you want this to stop.. "

That is roughly true on a federal level,
but on the Cali state/county/city level, the public employee "unions" have bought the Democrat government and will screw over everyone else to get their outrageous benefits.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Firefighter-Overtime-Payments-Spark-Look-at-Staffing-Issues-364933531.html

http://www.hjta.org/california-commentary/uc-pension-crisis-creates-teachable-moment/

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/uniontrib/20040911/news_1n11chp.html

http://www.dailynews.com/opinion/20140204/chp-officers-retiring-in-greater-numbers-than-calpers-projected-daniel-borenstein

http://www.metnews.com/articles/2013/beck122713.htm

http://calcoastnews.com/2012/12/chp-chief-was-making-nearly-500000-before-retiring/
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jan 15, 2016 - 09:49pm PT
splater...no arguements with you on the calpers benefits being too generous and unsustainable..but i wouldn't throw all the calpers workers into that category...
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 15, 2016 - 11:16pm PT
Name the most recent Republican accomplishment. Try.

Can't, right?

Without a vehicle (candidate, current office holder) to get anything done all your arguments are worthless. You Republicans are about to nominate Trump. Donald J. Trump.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 15, 2016 - 11:20pm PT
Name the most recent Republican accomplishment. Try.

They passed a bipartisan budget?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/1314
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 15, 2016 - 11:23pm PT
Sorta. And then their frontrunner, Trump, said they "threw in the towel".
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jan 16, 2016 - 12:41am PT
The State of the Nation: A Dictatorship Without Tears
By John W. Whitehead
January 12, 2016

“There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution.”—Aldous Huxley

There’s a man who contacts me several times a week to disagree with my assessments of the American police state. According to this self-avowed Pollyanna who is tired of hearing “bad news,” the country is doing just fine, the government’s intentions are honorable, anyone in authority should be blindly obeyed, those individuals who are being arrested, shot and imprisoned must have done something to deserve such treatment, and if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn’t care whether the government is spying on you.

In other words, this man trusts the government with his life, his loved ones and his property, and anyone who doesn’t feel the same should move elsewhere.

It’s tempting to write this man off as dangerously deluded, treacherously naïve, and clueless to the point of civic incompetence. However, he is not alone in his goose-stepping, comfort-loving, TV-watching, insulated-from-reality devotion to the alternate universe constructed for us by the Corporate State with its government propaganda, pseudo-patriotism and contrived political divisions.

While only 1 in 5 Americans claim to trust the government to do what is right, the majority of the people are not quite ready to ditch the American experiment in liberty. Or at least they’re not quite ready to ditch the government with which they have been saddled.

As The Washington Post concludes, “Americans hate government, but they like what it does.” Indeed, kvetching aside, Americans want the government to keep providing institutionalized comforts such as Social Security, public schools, and unemployment benefits, fighting alleged terrorists and illegal immigrants, defending the nation from domestic and foreign threats, and maintaining the national infrastructure. And it doesn’t matter that the government has shown itself to be corrupt, abusive, hostile to citizens who disagree, wasteful and unconcerned about the plight of the average American.

For the moment, Americans are continuing to play by the government’s rules. Indeed, Americans may not approve the jobs being done by their elected leaders, and they may have little to no access to those same representatives, but they remain committed to the political process, so much so that they are working themselves into a frenzy over the upcoming presidential election, with contributions to the various candidates nearing $500 million.

Yet as Barack Obama’s tenure in the White House shows, no matter how much hope and change were promised, what we’ve ended up with is not only more of the same, but something worse: an invasive, authoritarian surveillance state armed and ready to eliminate any opposition.

The state of our nation under Obama has become more bureaucratic, more debt-ridden, more violent, more militarized, more fascist, more lawless, more invasive, more corrupt, more untrustworthy, more mired in war, and more unresponsive to the wishes and needs of the electorate. Most of all, the government, already diabolical and manipulative to the nth degree, has mastered the art of “do what I say and not what I do” hypocrisy.

For example, the government’s arsenal is growing. While the Obama administration is working to limit the public’s access to guns by pushing for greater gun control, it’s doing little to scale back on the federal government’s growing arsenal of firepower and militarized equipment.

In fact, it’s not just the Department of Defense that’s in the business of waging war. Government agencies focused largely on domestic matters continue to spend tens of millions of taxpayer dollars to purchase SWAT and military-style equipment such as body armor, riot helmets and shields, cannon launchers and police firearms and ammunition. The Department of Veterans Affairs spent nearly $2 million on riot helmets, defender shields, body armor, a “milo return fire cannon system,” armored mobile shields, Kevlar blankets, tactical gear and equipment for crowd control. The Food and Drug Administration purchased “ballistic vests and carriers.” The Environmental Protection Agency shelled out $200,000 for body armor. And the Smithsonian Institution procured $28,000 worth of body armor for its “zoo police and security officers.”

The national debt is growing. In fact, it’s almost doubled during Obama’s time in office to nearly $20 trillion. Much of this debt is owed to foreign countries such as China, which have come to exert an undue degree of influence on various aspects of the American economy.

Meanwhile, almost half of Americans are struggling to save for emergencies and retirement, 43% can’t afford to go more than one month without a paycheck, and 24% have less than $250 in their bank accounts preceding payday.

On any given night, over half a million people in the U.S. are homeless, and half of them are elderly. In fact, studies indicate that the homeless are aging faster than the general population in the U.S.

While the U.S. spends more on education than almost any other country, American schools rank 28th in the world, below much poorer countries such as the Czech Republic and Vietnam.

The American police state’s payroll is expanding. Despite the fact that violent crime is at a 40-year-low, there are more than 1.1 million persons employed on a full-time basis by state and local law enforcement in this country. That doesn’t include the more than 120,000 full-time officers on the federal payroll.

While crime is falling, the number of laws creating new crimes is growing at an alarming rate. Congress creates, on average, more than 50 new criminal laws each year. This adds up to more than 4,500 federal criminal laws and an even greater number of state laws.

The prison population is growing at an alarming rate. Owing largely to overcriminalization, the nation’s prison population has quadrupled since 1980 to 2.4 million, which breaks down to more than one out of every 100 American adults behind bars. According to The Washington Post, it costs $21,000 a year to keep someone in a minimum-security federal prison and $33,000 a year for a maximum-security federal prison. Those costs are expected to increase 30 percent by 2020. Translation: while the American taxpayer will be forced to shell out more money for its growing prison population, the private prison industry will be making a hefty profit.

The nation’s infrastructure—railroads, water pipelines, ports, dams, bridges, airports and roads—is rapidly deteriorating. An estimated $1.7 trillion will be needed by 2020 to improve surface transportation, but with vital funds being siphoned off by the military industrial complex, there’s little relief in sight.

The expense of those endless wars in Afghanistan and Iraq will cost taxpayers $4 trillion to $6 trillion. That does not include the cost of military occupations and exercises elsewhere around the globe. Unfortunately, that’s money that is not being invested in America, nor is it being used to improve the lives of Americans.

Government incompetence, corruption and lack of accountability continue to result in the loss of vast amounts of money and weapons. A Reuters investigation revealed $8.5 trillion in “taxpayer money doled out by Congress to the Pentagon since 1996 that has never been accounted for.” Then there was the $500 million in Pentagon weapons, aircraft and equipment (small arms, ammunition, night-vision goggles, patrol boats, vehicles and other supplies) that the U.S. military somehow lost track of.

Rounding out the bad news, many Americans know little to nothing about their rights and the government. Only 31% can name all three branches of the U.S. government, while one in three says that the Bill of Rights guarantees the right to own your own home, while one in four thinks that it guarantees “equal pay for equal work.” One in 10 Americans (12%) says the Bill of Rights includes the right to own a pet.

If this brief catalogue of our national woes proves anything at all, it is that the American experiment in liberty has failed, and as political economist Lawrence Hunter warns, it is only a matter of time before people realize it. Writing for Forbes, Hunter notes:

The greatest fear of America’s Founding Fathers has been realized: The U.S. Constitution has been unable to thwart the corrosive dynamics of majority-rule democracy, which in turn has mangled the Constitution beyond recognition. The real conclusion of the American Experiment is that democracy ultimately undermines liberty and leads to tyranny and oppression by elected leaders and judges, their cronies and unelected bureaucrats. All of this is done in the name of “the people” and the “general welfare,” of course. But in fact, democracy oppresses the very demos in whose name it operates, benefiting string-pullers within the Establishment and rewarding the political constituencies they manage by paying off special interests with everyone else’s money forcibly extracted through taxation. The Founding Fathers (especially Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, Madison, and James Monroe), as well as outside observers of the American Experiment such as Alexis de Tocqueville all feared democracy and dreaded this outcome. But, they let hope and faith in their ingenious constitutional engineering overcome their fear of the democratic state, only to discover they had replaced one tyranny with another.

So are there any real, workable solutions to the emerging American police state?

A second American Revolution will not work. In the first revolution, the colonists were able to dispatch the military occupation and take over the running of the country. However, the Orwellian state is here and it is so pervasive that government agents are watching, curtailing and putting down any resistance before it can get started.

A violent overthrow of the government will not work. Government agents are armed to the teeth and will easily blow away any insurgency when and if necessary.

Politics will not help things along. As history has made clear, the new boss is invariably the same as or worse than the old boss—all controlled by a monied, oligarchic elite.

As I make clear in my book Battlefield America: The War on the American People, there is only one feasible solution left to us short of fleeing the country for parts unknown: grassroots activism that strives to reform the government locally and trickles up.

Unfortunately, such a solution requires activism, engagement, vigilance, sacrifice, individualism, community-building, nullification and a communal willingness to reject the federal government’s handouts and, when needed, respond with what Martin Luther King Jr. referred to as “militant nonviolent resistance.”

That means forgoing Monday night football in order to actively voice your concerns at city council meetings, turning off the television and spending an hour reading your local newspaper (if you still have one that reports local news) from front to back, showing your displeasure by picketing in front of government offices, risking your reputation by speaking up and disagreeing with the majority when necessary, refusing to meekly accept whatever the government dictates, reminding government officials—including law enforcement—that they work for you, and working together with your neighbors to present a united front against an overreaching government.

Unfortunately, we now live in a ubiquitous Orwellian society with all the trappings of Huxley’s A Brave New World. We have become a society of watchers rather than activists who are distracted by even the clumsiest government attempts at sleight-of-hand.

There are too many Americans who are reasonably content with the status quo and too few Americans willing to tolerate the discomfort of a smaller, more manageable government and a way of life that is less convenient, less entertaining, and less comfortable.

It well may be that Huxley was right, and that the final revolution is behind us. Certainly, most Americans seem to have learned to love their prison walls and take comfort in a dictatorship without tears.

John W. Whitehead is an attorney and author who has written, debated and practiced widely in the area of constitutional law and human rights. Whitehead's concern for the persecuted and oppressed led him, in 1982, to establish The Rutherford Institute, a nonprofit civil liberties and human rights organization whose international headquarters are located in Charlottesville, Virginia. Whitehead serves as the Institute’s president and spokesperson, in addition to writing a weekly commentary that is posted on The Rutherford Institute’s website (www.rutherford.org)
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jan 16, 2016 - 03:28am PT
There are too many Americans who are reasonably content with the status quo and too few Americans willing to tolerate the discomfort of a smaller, more manageable government and a way of life that is less convenient, less entertaining, and less comfortable.

I would have changed this one sentence.

There are too many Americans who are reasonably content with the status quo and too few Americans willing to tolerate the discomfort of a smaller, more manageable government and in return a life more free than when they were born while also more dependent on their own decisions and not someone else's.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 16, 2016 - 08:13am PT
do you believe that there are NO Democrats involved in illegal/unethical political activities?
Yes there are many Dems involved in corruption and unethical behavior

But the Republicans have made it so money trumps all, now it's too easy to take the BIG money and promote conservative policies that favor Corps, the military, and are a disservice to the Democratic agenda of serving the people.


How will this ever change?
There is only one way, elect in a Progressive Democratic Congress and President that can change the laws to get the money out of politics,
and to put in Liberal Judges in the SCOTUS.

That's why I always harp on voting out the Republicans, they stand in the way of ANY real change for this Country.
We got to have Campaign Finance reform, The status quo is killing us

and then there is the fact that they are at war with the Dems and Obama,
and have blocked everything that could be helping our economy and creating jobs.

The Dems only had a 27 working day of 60 Liberal Senators, they were busy saving the economy at that time in 2009. So don't bother repeating the lie that the Dems had a majority for 2 years or whatever.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 16, 2016 - 08:23am PT
Excellent analysis, as usual, Craig.
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