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jstan
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 04:12am PT
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Killer thread eh?
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 04:24am PT
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jstan-"Killer thread eh"
I'll give an 'Amen' to that!!
jstan-"eh"
are you sure your not a 'Canuck'?
Seamus must have schooled you as to the finer points of making one!! eh?
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 04:26am PT
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jstan.
finer points of making a point is what I meant.
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jstan
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 04:32am PT
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No. Anders is teaching me Canadian.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 04:35am PT
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Excellent choice of teachers from what I have 'observed'.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 04:47am PT
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j-stan.
Attaining the classification of 'Mighty Hiker' and 'Mighty Ocean Swimmer' are highly regarded in the Canadian 'neck of the woods'!!
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 05:10am PT
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jstan!
I was just folding things up and getting ready to call it a day, when something occurred to me! I was pondering the 'jstan' and wondering who you could be, and earlier you alluded to the 'John' and well... not meaning to embarrass or 'out you' so to speak... I'll ask you this way, do you regard the 'standard' of this fireside chat to be up to your 'stannard'?
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 05:50am PT
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jstan-
I have had a few moments to do a little bit of delving into things here and you no longer need to post a response to my last question to you.
I figured it out on my own. My humble apologies sir!!
I also have a better understanding of the word 'noob' since I certainly feel like one!!
If you would like me to, I will delete these last two post of mine? Or what the heck, leave them in place and let the world now what a 'dweeb' their dealing with here!!!
It' like this, TripL- slow typer, slow reader, slow at processing what he reads, slow at putting 2+2 together; the list goes on and on and on...be patient with me jstan...eh!
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 08:09am PT
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Lovegasolene-"to give the pot a stir"
What stirs me is Christopher Hitchins misquoting and misrepresenting the meaning of the words of Jesus, and then calling it an absolutely absurd proposition!
Jesus did not say 'give no thought to tomorrow', he said "give no worry to tomorrow". He mentions worry and worrying six times in these ten verses that Mr. Hutchins is referring to (Matthew 6:25-34).
As we understand today, worrying causes stress, panic, mental breakdowns, general poor health, and leads to an earlier death, just to name a few.
So, in that respect, Jesus was giving sound advice, 2,000 years ago that is applicable today. Sounds just like the Jesus I know.
He was not saying "you should give no thought to tomorrow, no investment, no care for family" and so on to quote Mr. Hitchin.
On the contrary, for it is illustrated countless places in the bible, the result of such actions. For example... "How long will you slumber, O sluggard? When will you rise from your sleep? A little sleep a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep-so shall your poverty come on you like a prowler, and your need like an armed man." Proverbs 6:9-11.
And likewise with regards to Jesus claiming that He was going to return immediately and that was the reason we did'nt have to "give thought to tomorrow'. Jesus clearly says that no man knows, not even Himself, at what time the Tribulation will begin and He will return.
I do not know much about this Mr. Hitchins, never heard of him before today...But if his knowledge of the bible is so weak, or he deliberatly bastardises it, whatever the problem is, I suggest taking what Mr. Hitchins says with a grain of salt. A grain of 'the salt of the earth' so to speak.
The only one who is absolutely absurd here is Mr. Hitchins and the conclusions he makes!!!
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 22, 2009 - 08:36am PT
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 22, 2009 - 08:38am PT
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One last thing I would like to mention in connection to evolution are some of the amazing discoveries and resources available from the study of DNA.
Every one carries within them the heritage of all your homo sapiens ancestors. If you are African descended, these go back more than 50,000 years. If your ancestors are from Europe, Asia, or the Americas, it will be 50,000 or less and your DNA enables us to know what route they took to get there and at what point in time the mutation occurred that made your genetic lineage, your haplotype, unique. With more detailed testing you can determine who of the same surname is related to you. It is also possible to find hidden ethnic ancestry both in America and in the lands of your ancestors. For African Americans it is often the only hope of knowing what part of Africa your ancestors came from.
The PBS video, The Long Journey, details the story of how our ancestors left Africa and covered the face of the earth in the span of only a few thousand years. Spencer Wells, the narrator, is now the head of a five year project by National Geographic to sample every human population on earth. This gargantuan effort is funded in part through the money earned from individual testing. If you would like to know your deep ancestry going back 20,000 to 50,000 years ago, National Geographic offers the cheapest reliable way to do this, for only $99.
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/lan/en/atlas.html
To see how useful DNA has proven to be for a common name like Baker note:
http://bakerdna.net/
For some interesting examples of how multi ethnic heritage involving Africans, Native Americans and early European colonials can be sorted out, note studies being done on the east coast where such admixtures first occurred. Through this testing we may even be able to locate descendants of the lost colony of Roanoke.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Colony_DNA_Project
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg/
For those who want to read abstracts on the subject from the original research papers see:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
and type in the name of any ethnic group that you're interested in.
And finally, for dog lovers who want to know what their mixed mutt is composed of, the DNA testing lab with the most accurate methods (230 breeds tested for) is:
http://www.wisdompanel.com/
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2009 - 08:47am PT
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Thanks for that, Gobbee. It's been a number of hours since you tried
to convert the pagans with another bible copy and paste.
Keep em coming !
Personally, I wish you would do more on the Book on Revelations .
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 09:38am PT
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Thankyou, Gobee! You truly are 'salt of the earth'!
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wack-N-dangle
Gym climber
the ground up
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Oct 22, 2009 - 09:39am PT
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Jstan,
Please be careful if you are equating abnormal psychology with "adaptive group behavior". From my limited understanding, some abnormal psychology is organic in nature, injuries, illnesses, developmental. Also, there are many traits in biological organisms that are non-adaptive. Some things come to mind, vestigal limbs on a boa constrictor, lipstick on a pig, or maybe even an Alaskan senator.
What I was taught is that evolution is a testable theory, and in essence it is a law. The underlying mechanism of evolution is natural selection. The beauty I see in it is that there is this simple mechanism, and it works on RNA, DNA, proteins, traits, behaviors, individual organisms, groups of similar organisms, and even groups of very different organisms. There seems to be a parallel between natural selection, and a law like gravity. Both are simple in principle, but when you throw in concepts of space and time, the manifestations are that much more incredible. Evolution, the diversity of life, and its organization amazes me.
Furthermore, there seems to be a conflict between my understanding of entropy, and the diversification, and perpetuation of life. (The biological drive to procreate may almost be a proverbial "genie out of a bottle".) I'm sure the are easily reconciled. Maybe what I see, from a human perspective, creation and life, is really, simply highly ordered decay. Still, it really is beautiful! (RAD!), Also, I'm sure that there are much better things to be doing, but I hope that we find life on Mars in my lifetime. Ha! Maybe one of the better things to be doing is climbing!!!
Finally, Jstan. If we talk about abnormal psychology, here is something that I think might resolve many problems in general.
Richard Brautigan - Karma Repair Kit: Items 1-4
1. Get enough food to eat,
and eat it.
2. Find a place to sleep where it is quiet,
and sleep there.
3. Reduce intellectual and emotional noise
until you arrive at the silence of yourself,
and listen to it.
4.
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 10:18am PT
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Evolution is considered by biologists to be the fundamental principal of biology. Without evolution there is no modern biology.
This seems to have escaped the notice of those people who oppose the teaching of evolution because it is in conflict with their religious beliefs.
Yes! Biology makes no sense without it.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Oct 22, 2009 - 10:34am PT
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You know the one thing that is gonna throw science into a major tither is the fact that we are not alone. Call them Aliens if you must, (I know they are really Fallen Angels and Nephalim).
It will throw instantly the whole idea of accidental evolution into question. Perhaps they have been here for millions of years and have influenced mankind or genetically altered our DNA? If that is true, then Evolution as researched and taught at the moment is wrong, it didn't go down exactly that way.
So NASA when are we gonna get up-close high resolution images from the LRO of this craft on the backside of the Moon and publically release them? Come-on already geeeeeeeeeeeees.
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/frame/?AS15-P-9625
The idea of a massive craft on the backside of the Moon doesn't surprise me anymore. I know that the word of God is true and this is explained in Genesis. Some of the Nephalim survived the flood. Perhaps they made their own "Ark." They are a hybrid of Angel/Man and they had superior intellect although they are completely evil and lost. They are not a result of God's design. Angels were never meant to breed with humans. Read Genesis and the the book of Enoch.
So much becomes clear about our past as a result.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Oct 22, 2009 - 10:38am PT
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After sucking face with an angel one time,
My grin developed a limp.
It never quite recovered.
‘s what happens when you lay your soul softly upon the lap of the devil.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Oct 22, 2009 - 10:39am PT
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jstan- "evidence is accumulating suggesting chemicals,such as lead, that we are putting into the environment, are agents causing some unusual mutations"
Gits ya thin kin about all those years back when we were kid's, lived in eighteen different houses, apts.,etc. between the ages of five and eighteen...maybe that's my problem.
My first year in college (1968) took a job with a roofing co. cleaning out the backs of their trucks in the evening, dumping all the refuse,tar paper etc. into a dumpster and then restocking it for the next day!! Name of company...'Asbestos Roofing Co.'....sheeesh!!! Glad I only lasted a couple day's. Quit! Rednecks did not take to kindly to longhairs back in those day's!!!! Theml letting the air out of my tires was one of the nicer ways I ended a long night of work. I remember it as the 'rednecks save my neck' job!!!
Fascinating stuff 'j'. Thanks, 7.
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wack-N-dangle
Gym climber
the ground up
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Oct 22, 2009 - 11:09am PT
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There are a few "great" current evolutionary thinkers. A question that cause one of them to pause was something like, does evolution exist on other planets?
Finally, the definition of a species is a wonderfully plastic, semi-amorphous thing.
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jstan
climber
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Oct 22, 2009 - 11:15am PT
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777:
Two hillbillies walk into a restaurant. While having a bite to eat, they talk about their moonshine operation.
Suddenly, a woman at a nearby table, who is eating a sandwich, begins to cough. After a minute or so, it becomes apparent that she is in real distress.
One of the hillbillies looks at her and says,'Kin ya swallar?'
The woman shakes her head no.
Then he asks, 'Kin ya breathe?'
The woman begins to turn blue and shakes her head no.
The hillbilly walks over to the woman, lifts up her dress, yanks down her drawers and quickly gives her right butt cheek a lick with his tongue.
The woman is so shocked that she has a violent spasm and the obstruction flies out of her mouth.
As she begins to breathe again, the Hillbilly walks slowly back to his table.
His partner says, 'Ya know, I'd heerd of that there 'Hind Lick Maneuver' but I ain't niver seed nobody do it!'
End quote
OK, now that the heavy lifting is done.
Recently I read a study showing how long it takes the lung to rid itself of foreign material. I got the impression at least some parts of it are completed in under an hour. The long stringy asbestos particles are a problem because neither the cilli nor the phagocytes( a variety of white blood cells) are able to move them. So fluid removal is the remaining mechanism.
W N D
Yes. Just up thread Ed was suggesting the upcoming spectral data from the planet surveys that have become technically possible may indicate whether life is present. It is not too big a step to hope that a way of inferring the presence of evolution might follow. At a minimum we can detect the chlorofluoro carbons in their atmosphere. Out of that we will learn they are not particularly smart. When you consider both how short a time we have been intelligent on this planet and also the pathetic state of present national and interpersonal relations, it is very unlikely we will meet anyone with whom we can argue.
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