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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Apr 12, 2008 - 06:58pm PT
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Although I don't entirely disagree with DR's argument that there's something positive in an accessible route that's more in sync with "Today's" standards (obviously Coz and Schultz were too far ahead of their time), I'll try to respond to Karl's question.
Would a ground-up route with more bolts and perhaps not-as-fine-tuned for free-climbing line be preferable?
I would say it depends on the style. If it were sieged, with ropes fixed the whole way up the wall, then perhaps no, it wouldn't be preferable. But if it were climbed "alpine-style" then I'd say yes, because it involves more commitment (not the type that requires months of effort working on a route, but the type that requires a momentary separation from safety that is based on one's confidence in their skills).
If there's a given level of commitment "required" by the community-at-large to establish new routes, the quality of the routes will be more elegant, in my opinion. Not easier or harder necessarily, but overall more elegant.
Because, really, top-down is just a siege in the opposite direction.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Apr 12, 2008 - 07:24pm PT
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RE:
"That's all - back to the food fight."
whipped cream, baby...
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Apr 12, 2008 - 08:56pm PT
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"Because, really, top-down is just a siege in the opposite direction. "
Wise words!
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chossyslab
climber
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Apr 12, 2008 - 08:59pm PT
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"Because, really, top-down is just a siege in the opposite direction"
ZING!
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Brandon Lampley
Mountain climber
Boulder, CO
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Apr 12, 2008 - 11:13pm PT
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I'm curious. Could the belays on the upper route have been drilled from stance. Seems like the answer could define either of two possibilities.
1. The route could have gone ground up, with no pro between belays, but belays drilled on lead.
or
2. The route simply could not have been put up roped, save for a 95 or 150 meter rope? (not feasible?) Put up freesolo onsight? unlikely 200 consecutive holes? NO WAY Or just NEVER climbed!
Seems Pete's got the cred to run his mouth about anything El Cap save new free routes, but concerning this?
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Apr 12, 2008 - 11:32pm PT
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When I need some calming I walk into the room where this is hanging and stare
Hopefully it will have the same calming effect here.
To those who would chop, you may want to avoid Robbins' regrets after WEML, and only chop on your SECOND time up the route. Use your first time up the route to check it out and see if it's really the abomination you claim it is. Post up here (all you posters here who might actually climb the route. I'm no dreamer here - GU would never have been on even my dream list.)
To those who would slam the FA team - there will be a Facelift session devoted to Growing Up. Be there, and tell them to their collective faces what you think. (Sorry, DR, Sean et al - now you'll have to show up to Facelift. I'll bring beer).
Bill
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Apr 12, 2008 - 11:37pm PT
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That is a gorgeous piece of artwork!
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Apr 13, 2008 - 12:02am PT
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This is just a re-post of Post #3 in this thread, which seems Oh so long ago:
" 1000 bolts with coz's name on them.
Some glue-on holds for ambivalence.
A shock kit at the base with mental relaxant drugs for those who will freak when they see.
Something for the heart too, a defibrillator, to revive the weak hearted.
Hahahaha Coz ....... "
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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Apr 13, 2008 - 12:18am PT
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One more question...Are you guys jacking it to some of your own posts?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Apr 13, 2008 - 12:29am PT
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Thanks Ed
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Apr 13, 2008 - 12:44am PT
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Since we have a warm fuzzy lul in the action,
I just have to post these photos of Shultz & Hank from BITD.
Call it half-time comic relief!
Shultz, a.k.a. "The Iron Monkey" a cuple/three years before the death route days:
...and Hankster, some short time before he got bucked by the 'Belle:
...and Schultzy, Coz, & Kauk & Hiskes huckin' rocks at squirrels in C4 lot.
Those death route boys, they got no regard fer life I tell ya.
(Well, not Kauk, he just watched: Peace Bro!)
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Apr 13, 2008 - 12:50am PT
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hats off to Shultz and Coz et. all
for their visionary effort on the
Southern Belle - holy cow!
Incredible.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Apr 13, 2008 - 01:24am PT
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is it just me?
cripes pedro, if you are gonna get involved in criticizing these guys after 1200+ posts, make some effort to at least read DR's and sean's posts before you start flappin yer keyboard.
is that really too much to ask?
there are no 14 yr old climber groupies to impress around here, so take your time and become 1/2 way familiar with the discussion before you start laying out assumptions that were quashed in the 1st 100 posts or so.
sheesh...
btw bouldering the shist around ontario counts for jack squat, nobody cares.
DR and sean- a word to the wise, if you'd just start findin some GAWD up there in them mountains, the born-again-so-not-accountable-canadian-crowd would have your back 24/7.
(isn't it at least a little ironic that the champion of the WoS crew is now rejuvinating his oh-so-strict interpretations? too bad ya'll haven't found THE BETTER WAY yet- haha)
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Sean Jones
climber
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Apr 13, 2008 - 01:49am PT
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I read something that said chop it. I think the f#cker was written by someone..... can't even remember.....It said(local with athority) Are you afraid to post your real name ? As I said before, My home # is 209-379-2870.
If you have a problem, call ME ! If I find out about you or anyone else chopping anything, anywhere. I'll have no problem kicking your f#cking ass.
Maybe you should go chop all the routes everywhere that aren't the way you see fit. Hell lets go to Europe and tell the whole country full of athletes that have been kicking our sad American asses for how many years now? That they all suck too and we PROUD Americans who make all the rules are gonna go set the whole world straight.
Bottom line, Get off the computer, Off your ass and go climb something. And shut the f#ck up.
Am I sounding pissed now ? I'm actually starting to get that way.
Sean Jones.
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Apr 13, 2008 - 02:08am PT
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Apr 13, 2008 - 02:59am PT
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Again, coming from a younger generation of climbers.
This route should not be chopped. In SD we are currently feeling the effects of bolt chopping and nothing is worse for climbers and nothing is worse for rock. I don't support the style or ethics used on GU but this does not give anyone the right to remove bolts. Whatever needs to be hashed out with words or other methods should be done but without chopping. I hope this is accomplished. I'm going climbing.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Apr 13, 2008 - 11:00am PT
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Sean writes: If I find out about you or anyone else chopping anything, anywhere. I'll have no problem kicking your f#cking ass.
This seems a bit over the top. Are we ready for a "who owns the rock" argument? Some guys like putting them in, some guys like taking them out.
Threats of ass kicking....? oh my. Are you policing the world or just the US with last statement?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 13, 2008 - 11:14am PT
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Sean writes: If I find out about you or anyone else chopping anything, anywhere. I'll have no problem kicking your f#cking ass.
Some posts should probably be accompanied by the number of beer onboard while typing.
Still, if I had made multiple runs up to half dome, spent money and sweat working on something that hard, I'd be pissed too.
Easy to say the word "Chop" on an online forum, easy to be upset by it.
Peace
Karl
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say-no-to-rap-bolting!
Trad climber
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Apr 13, 2008 - 11:47am PT
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ok karl baba, it's easy to say the word chop just like that
but, if you accept one route like that you'll have to accept anotherone as well, and anotherone. So where to stop? On El Cap? Or on the NW Face?
If this route doesn't get chopped then there is a chance others will follow the example. Why not rapbolting El Cap??? Because it's El Cap? This is Half Dome...
If there was a guarantee that GU will be the only rapbolted climb on a YV big wall then it's ok, and can be accepted as an exception. But who gives you that guarantee?
sean jones: your post just disqualified you for a reasonable discussion. no need for a name then... On my first post I should have written my name sure, but now...
I thought this wasn't a discussion where it's all about offending others. Am I wrong? I hope you are an exception, both in being impolite and in your perception of climbing(I guess that's not the case...)
edit:nothing to say anymore...
bl
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