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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jan 15, 2016 - 12:57pm PT
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Almost everyone of those points against Hillary are pure Republican led witch hunts that have no merit on truthful honesty
How would you like someone to go through your legal e-mail server looking for any thing that they can use to bash you with.
AND they found zero that they can use against her except an e-mail to Chelsea, which was meaningless, since "What does it matter if it was the video or a terrorist attack"
since it was the Video that spurred on the Terrorist attack, she was correct, it doesn't matter what you call it.
The talking points were given to the Admin by the CIA, were they supposed to say something other than what the CIA said??
It's pretty lame to say that she should have.
EVERY Single SOS used a private e-mail server until Kerry started his service. Bush II used the Karl Rove GOP server, then Rove erased 3 million e-mails when asked by Congress to see them. I want to see them...
Are we allowed to look at Condi's e-mails?
why not?
And every Republican is caught up in a web of lies about trickle down economics, climate change, Christianity, guns, who their campaign donors are. Every word out of their mouth is part of their misinformation campaign.
So I say you're wrong John
Every Republican candidate is a sick liar, Hillary is basically honest but has a billion dollar smear campaign running against her to make her look like a terrible person. It's truly a sick way to run a party, tear down the competition through lies, smears and misinformation all because the Republicans have nothing truthful to offer America that is good.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jan 15, 2016 - 01:06pm PT
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So you kept your Doctor and Insurance Plan
You just had to pay more, but you have no reference of what you would had to pay w/o the ADA.
Some people had to change plans because they weren't offered anymore,
Big deal, so Obama said something Not completely true, but mostly true, information changes all the time, you say one thing one day, and the next day things have changed so it's no longer applicable, That is Not a LIE.
So your remarks fall short of proving anything
and the remarks about Obama lying are untrue, and most of those accusations against Hillary have been proven to be incorrect.
But a bunch of bloggers out to smear Obama say he lied, They lie about everything, so who to trust?
How about that Republican Health Care Plan
Will it save you money?
Why won't the Republicans just help to fix the ADA and put in cost controls?
Why? because they want it to fail and to piss people off, they want America to SUFFER for petty politics, nothing more.
People are starving, getting paid low wages, millions of jobs sent overseas, millions in poverty, millions w/o proper Healthcare due to it's expense, yet our Republican leaders sit on their hands and will do nothing just for political points.
Here is their strategy, Make the Entire Country Suffer, and hopefully the people will be so stupid and blame the Dems, and hopefully forget that the republicans caused the problem in the first place, and reelect Republicans.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 15, 2016 - 01:17pm PT
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John,
Not one of those links demonstrates what the President actually knows, which you say that you know.
He can be wrong, but not knowing something and being wrong about it is not the same as telling a lie.....as you know.
Being told something wrong in an area in which you have no particular expertise, then repeating it is not telling a lie.....as you know.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jan 15, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
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Ken, Obama is a lawyer with the very best of credentials. Saying he didn't know that he wasn't telling the truth in this situation is a little like saying an experienced climber really expected 550 parachute cord to hold a factor two leader fall. It stretches credibility beyond the breaking point.
John
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jan 15, 2016 - 01:29pm PT
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The ADA was designed so you would keep your doctor and plan
but the insurance Companies DROPPED the Plans
So Obama DID not lie, changes occurred beyond Obama's control,
and you could buy a new better plan using the SAME Insurance Company
and you will use the Same Doctor
So this whole lying thing is a manufactured Smear campaign against Obama, nothing more
Yet all these Misinformed Republicans will shove it down our throats over and over again and look like complete idiots for posting their despicable propaganda.
At Least Hillary admits that she misspoke about some things, like being broke when she left the Whitehouse, she said she regrets saying that, she says she was wrong about sniper fire, she is honest enough to say she was wrong or misspoke.
No Republican will say they were wrong about anything, where is Bush's apology for Iraq? for cratering the economy? for stacking the supreme court with fascists?
So the contrast is stark, being responsible for what you say, or just being a hard nosed a-hole that will never back down when proven wrong or lying.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jan 15, 2016 - 01:56pm PT
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I'm sure the Republican brand of government-provided health care would be sooo much better. Good Grief.
Why is no one asking the question of whether we should be looking to Big Daddy .Gov to provide us with healthcare?
Some of the people on here have their panties all in a wad about something so personal as the choice of a Doctor and then turn around and advocate that the government restrict something like gay marriage?
How about we get gov't completely out of the marriage business AND the healthcare business.
As offensive as some people view Gay Marriage or Obamacare, I view with the same level of disdain the fact that we are even having the discussion.
We have become so conditioned that we will fight each other over allowing or not allowing the government to recognize or provide something that is totally not up to them to even have a stake in in the first place!
This is exactly what our current elected official base wants, we've already conceded the power to them to make one or the other legal, now its just people fighting over the ideology of the thing.
Make no mistake, the government doesn't care who gets married to who, or whether you like the Republican or Democrat brand of healthcare, they are ONLY concerned that they maintain the power to choose it for you.
The more you fight over one or the other, the more you actually concede your rights as a citizen.
If you don't agree with the ideology of Gay Marriage, fine. If you do, that's cool too! If you want to help people with their Healthcare, by all means be my guest.
But don't use the government as your tool to inflict whatever your brand of morality is on the rest of the supposedly free population.
All you're doing is giving up more power to the people who DO NOT share in your disgust.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jan 15, 2016 - 02:10pm PT
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We fight about Government in HealthCare because we are paying WAY, and the Republicans will not allow a Public Option for Medicare, and they want to gut Medicare.
The Republican meddling allows the Private insurance Companies no real completion, and obscene billions in profits at our expense.
We would pay 3 times less for single payer
We are being fleeced by the Republicans that are in bed with the Private Insurance Companies so they can get their bribes
it's all about making big money for their cronies when it comes to Republican policies
It's a sick and twister Political world we live in
The more you fight over one or the other, the more you actually concede your rights as a citizen What rights am I conceding as a citizen?
None. we have to fight for OUR Rights, because they will be taken away by the Republicans if we allow them to do what they want.
You have to fight
Democracy takes work
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jan 15, 2016 - 02:21pm PT
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Marriage is a contract with the State that offers married couples special privileges.
So the Gov. plays a role
A Gov. that restricts marriage and other rights because of religious beliefs is not a secular Democracy, it's theocracy.
I found your rant to be full of holes, just more anti-government ravings based on a misunderstanding of the important role Gov. plays in our lives
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jan 15, 2016 - 02:30pm PT
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Craig Fry. You are fighting the wrong battle.
And for the record, Marriage isn't a contract with the State. Its a contract with another person.
Rather than fight about what the government will or won't recognize, how about we fight to remove all the financial incentives and penalties that the government has saddled the institution of marriage with?
And then what will you have? Two free people conducting their life how they see fit without needless government intrusion. Sounds awful nice to me.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 15, 2016 - 02:39pm PT
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Ken, Obama is a lawyer with the very best of credentials. Saying he didn't know that he wasn't telling the truth in this situation is a little like saying an experienced climber really expected 550 parachute cord to hold a factor two leader fall. It stretches credibility beyond the breaking point.
John
I appreciate that you think that being an attorney means that one is a world expert in every subject under the sun.
It ain't so.
It also isn't so that an attorney who specializes in healthcare issues, is automatically an expert in healthcare issues. Don't let them operate on you!
To use your absurd analogy, it would be like an attorney who never climbed anything, opining on the sufficiency of a rope for a factor 2 fall. No need to bother with ACTUAL experts.
I suppose you'd have such an attorney come in and supervise the rigging on a El Cap climb.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jan 15, 2016 - 02:40pm PT
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And for the record, Marriage isn't a contract with the State. Its a contract with another person. WTF?
Wrong, 2 people don't need a contract to be together
But you do have to get a marriage license from the State to get any special privileges.
You can have your fight, I will pick mine
and I don't need anyone telling me I'm fighting the wrong fight
and I don't understand what your getting at, other than saying we should all bury our head in the sand
which I will never abide with, I will fight, I will study, I will debate, I will vote against all Right Wingers and libertarians, I will inform
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jan 15, 2016 - 02:43pm PT
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I found your rant to be full of holes, just more anti-government ravings based on a misunderstanding of the important role Gov. plays in our lives
My "Rant" is Pro-Freedom. Not Anti-Government. Both can exist. But it requires the recognition from people like yourself that you have been duped into fighting for further relinquishing of your rights and you don't realize it because you are so caught up in the Republican vs Democrat battle.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jan 15, 2016 - 02:46pm PT
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explain this Freedom
and I will explain how you are delusional
The freedom you want is a delusion,
There will be no freedom w/o a strong Gov. to give you that Freedom
No one lives in a bubble, we are all in this together
e pluribus Unum
Typical Libertarianism
I want freedom from the Gov. that gives me all the stuff I need to live my life. The Roads, money, telephone, internet, safety, hospitals, education, clean air and water, I will take all their free handouts that let me live my freedom, and I refuse to pay for it.
Like a cat that thinks he is living the good life, completely independent, completely free, and as long as that mysterious free bowl of Gov. food appears every morning, the cat lives in his delusion of freedom.
are you free if you are starving?
are you free if you can't pay your bills?
are you free if you don't have a home to live in?
are you free if can't get married because you love someone of the same sex?
No
You have to have your basic needs met before any freedom can exist.
And the Gov. should be the last resort to make sure you have your basic needs met so you can be free.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jan 15, 2016 - 02:57pm PT
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Let's say your loving wife to be has blue eyes. She's gorgeous and you want to get married.
And you know what, marriage is cool. Ever since the new president you get all these tax breaks and a special plaque from El Presidente and a free honeymoon all expenses paid.
Oops. You know what, the government passed legislation yesterday that people with Blue Eyes can't get married. No marriage license for you and no free honeymoon. And since you already said that two people need the government license to be married, you're screwed.
Moral of the story: As some people have recently found out... If you use the government to carry out your own brand of morality, don't get butt hurt when you get beat at your own game. I propose we just stop playing. If you take away all the BS that goes with marriage, then what is it? Just two people together.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jan 15, 2016 - 03:02pm PT
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Very poor analogy
and yes, the Republicans may restrict your freedom by making certain people unable to marry
So it is a Democratic vs. Republican fight
freedom and rights have to be fought for, because the Republicans will restrict them
like mixed races
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jan 15, 2016 - 03:03pm PT
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And some other future party might restrict your ability to marry people with blue eyes.
Why not remove the risk altogether?
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jan 15, 2016 - 03:09pm PT
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August, this argument seems to be blaming the market for failing to give you your preferred mode of transportation. Just because you would prefer living in an urban environment that can support a rapid subway system does not mean that most others would so choose.
No one is saying that government has no role in transportation. What I am saying is that the prevelance of private automobiles reflects rational thought by consumers, given their preferences.
I absolutely am blaming the market for not giving me my preferred mode of transportantion. No, I take that back. I'm blaming the government because I realize this is something that the free market cannot provide.
What I am saying is the rational consumer choice doesn't always get good results. Tragedy of the commons: it makes sense for animal factory farms to pump their animals full of anti-biotics because they get less sick and put weight on faster. It causes resistance and everyone loses but one owner can't do anything about that.
Yea, I realize I am minority here. But in your first comment way back, if I recall correctly, the gist was that public transportation shouldn't be pushed by the government because we all loved cars. My response: if the government spent money on high speed rail (instead of 8 lane freeways), had zoning laws that created higher urban densities, put money into high quality subways, we could end up with a system that, even though it would obviously have trade-offs, would be better than our car culture.
Just because in the absense of such a policy we end up with a bunch of individual consumers all choosing to buy cars, doesn't make that a better outcome for the group. The only way to get there is to push government to push this policy.
So I think in a democracy it is perfectly reasonable to fight to make the government give me a transportation alternative that the free market can't provide.
Should our interstate highway system have been left up to the freemarket?
Should SF Bart our the New York subway have been left up to the freemarket?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jan 15, 2016 - 03:23pm PT
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August,
One viable argument states that if the government hadn't meddled in the development of our transportation system way back when...the rail system would still carry the majority of our cargo and the free market may well have provided all those things you desire rather than trying to keep an interstate system up and running to accommodate 3-by tractor trailers carrying cargo across country in the most inefficient way possible.
If good old Mr Goodyear hadn't contributed to the right campaign, we might be a nation of bullet trains and subways. We will never know what the free market can provide, unless we provide a free market
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