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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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And thanks to WBraun for being the same old predictable ironic choirboy
Thanks Werner!
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JPster
Ice climber
colorado
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Rolo, I am sorry but by "fair means" does not give Kennedy and Kruk the right to destroy history. If climbing Cerro Torre by “fair means”, gives the "right to chop” the Cesare Maestri Compressor Route bolts put up in 1959, then I suppose it is long past time to chop the Harding bolt ladder on the Nose, the Kor bolt ladder on Half Dome and to fill in the cut steps of Otto's Route on the Colorado Monument. “By fair means” does not give anyone the right to destroy climbing history. Who do they think they are to assume this level of ownership of Cerro Torre…?
If you want to climb by “fair means’ don’t clip the bolts and proclaim your accomplishment to the world…!
JP
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Snorky
Trad climber
Carbondale, CO
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JP
That was so 1000 posts ago...
And the bolts were from 1970 not 1959. Did you even read the thread? It only takes about 3 hours.
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mika
Big Wall climber
Zurich, switzerland
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The inspiration of Kennedy and Kruk
It is the wise Oscar Wilde who tells us much about the inspiration of the Kennedy + Kruk Klan: Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.
The way the KKK whishes to live is: to climb Torre by "fair means", so far so good, but chopping the adjacent more easy climb is: asking others to live as one wishes to live.
So now we know that selfishness inspired the Klan!
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WBraun
climber
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Destroy history!
There's been no destruction of history whatsoever.
The history of Cerro Torre is well documented everywhere.
Think again, more aspirin ....
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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What is interesting to me is that K&K used a number of Maestri's bolts on the descent since they are part of the rappel route. Is it OK to remove the bolts you didn't use, but leave the bolts you did use? What kind of statement does that kind of action make? Were they trying to 'erase' the route in which case they should have removed the bolts used for rappel or just trying to remove the bolts they didn't like? Both types were drilled with the compressor.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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bhilden
What K&K did was taking the route to their own level by leaving some of Maestri's bolts. They didn't chop the route bolt-free because then it would have been above their own level. In many ways they did the same thing as Maestri did in 1970 on his own level during the circumstances at the time. And just as Maestri did at his time K&K are now rationalizing their choice.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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I wonder if the compressor still works.
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Gene
climber
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It needs a new carburetor.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Thanks to the Klan, as the situation is today, we will be seeing more fixed ropes on Torre again!
So you are saying it will actually be quite easier to climb Cerro Torre next season?
Nice.
Booking a ticket. Need to bag another trophy peak.
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monaco
climber
marseille (FR) - parma (IT)
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@ Lovegasoline
good point! KKK as jesuits!!! :)))))))))
and a clever explication of why several italian climbers like me...that always fight against bolts...do not like KKK's action
there is only one thing in the world that we unlike more than bolts...the pope! :)))))))))))))))))))))))))
seriously...we know very well what can be the consequences of ''owning the only true truth''.
the previously cited ''american imperialism'' is nothing compared to what our ''holy fathers'' did along the centuries imposing their ''true truth''.
sorry guys :(
I stated it before...the bold example is messner concerning his ''fight'' against the murder of impossible:
-do not destroy others' routes
-show to the climbing world what you think is the correct way climbing your routes
-real class will emerge without imposition
class rules!
for those who lost it...I would like to show you once more the sage words of Mario Conti...one of the first ascentionists of the Ragni route on Cerro Torre:
Certainly I want to congratulate with Kennedy and Kruk for their ascentand even more with David Lama for the free-ascent.
On removal of Maestri's bolts I absolutely desagree. A first ascent done in 1970, when even El Chalten existed, when Patagonia was not accessible as it is today, certainly done with methods that I did not approve, that I do not approve even today, still deserves respect for his historical value. This route is in fact, along with the controversy and the pages of literature inspired by it, a piece of the history of alpinism, history consists of beautiful and ugly things, and is representative of those years of mountaineering. Maestri put bolts in 1970, but others have not been more respectful, just think about the spits posed by Lama with subsequent removal by Garibotti. We can clearly state that among all the climbers that climbed Cerro Torre anybody can state that he had been consistent with what professed by himself. Maestri's Bolts and belays have been used by all. The certainty of a fast-descent has helped many, including some famous first-ascentionists, to ''play'' until the last possibility. In the same way others used the last part of the Compressor route to complete their new lines. I would point out that the only independent lines that reach the top are ours [Ragni route], and Maestri's route, with the last part climbed by Bridwell. Surely now the possibility of climbing Cerro Torre is denied for the most part of aspirants. Certainly these routes, symbol of an unsurvived Mountaineering, have been considered differently in the Alps. Maestri's and others' routes, such as the Minussi line in Lavaredo, have been free-climbed, nevertheless no one has ever arrogated the right to erase the historical value by removing the original bolts. Evidently the Torre is different, the charm of being involved in a controversy with famous climbers and unknowns is more passionating that ascents themselves, and so Kennedy and Kruk will be remembered in the history not for their beautiful ascent, but still thanks to Maestri, and the controversy over his forty years old decisions. In this sense, they should at least thank him.
Mario Conti
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maze
Ice climber
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.."Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live. " (..thanks mika)
This works for Maestri, and for KKK.
Just this.
When i go on a mountain, i just try to make my transit clean and invisible, in the good and in the evil.
Peace.
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uli__
climber
Milan, Italy
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@maze, jou can't pretend that time just doesn't exists and use the same scale for maestri in 1971 and for kkk today
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Does anyone recall the days of the first pitonless ascents in the Gunks? There was a register at Rock and Snow full of quite a few stories of the great lengths people would go to to climb routes in the gunks without using any of the fixed pitons. Anyone have any stories? Some stories were wicked scary.
I think back then you really had to do it without any of the offending past's climbing hardware to consider it fair.
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nature
climber
Aridzona for now Denver.... here I come...
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Free suggests they didn't use any aid.
at least it does to me and obviously many others.
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nature
climber
Aridzona for now Denver.... here I come...
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so why do you question what is 'wrong' about that thread title?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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But what is Consecration? What is Resurrection? What is this religious reference to?
I think the full thread title (if Supertopo allowed longer thread titles) would have been: "Cerro Torre, A Mountain Consecrated - The Resurrection of the Impossible."
An obvious play on the titles of two articles from many years ago: A Ken Wilson article titled; "Cerro Torre, a Mountain Desecrated", and the Reinhold Messner article titled "The Murder of the Impossible."
Just guessing, but it makes sense.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Lovegas
Brilliant hermeneutics!
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