Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 8, 2009 - 10:01am PT
|
Breaking my promise about not posting again. Greg, I agree that the Compressor Route has some great climbing on it and shouldn't be chopped if the Argentines are opposed. I also wish the route had never been established. Josh Wharton and partner were the ones who wanted to chop the route, but only if they could do it sans bolts. They created a bit of a firestorm with the locals. I believe it was Josh"s second trip to the area and he was perceived as being a bit brash and presumptuous. Josh and partner did climb to the middle of the headwall without using a single bolt but were driven off by a storm.
There are many great routes on El Cap that have a lot of bolts, but Cerro Torre is not El Cap. Two routes come to mind that epitomize the way a mountain like Cerro Torre should be climbed: the West Face (Ferrari et al), and Rolo's route from the Col of Conquest. Additionally, given the rise in climbing standards, the Compressor Route will be done without bolts- what then?
El Cap is all about the climbing. A three thousand foot high chunk of impeccable granite set in a very accessible location that is blessed with a mediterranean climate and capped with a forest that is a pleasant place for a picnic.
Cerro Torre, and mountains like it, are about the difficulty of their accessibility. Given the fact that climbing mountains will in no way benefit society, style becomes all the more important. Magnificent mountains deserve our best efforts and the best efforts in climbing are those that require the least amount of technology.
The Compressor Route has made Cerro Torre accessible to many climbers that would otherwise only be able to look at the mountain (as did Bonatti in 1958) in awe. Many would say that making such a summit more accessible is a good thing. I, for one, feel that having places, on this crowded planet, that only our very best efforts will allow us to visit is a good thing.
One of the things that I like about the climbing community is that we can disagree in a collegial manner. My wife understands me best when she says that I am, "often wrong but never in doubt."
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
How would you feel if some brash Argentienian climber came to the ditch and announced that they were going to chop the nose?
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 8, 2009 - 10:17am PT
|
You missed my point about the difference between a mountain and a cliff. You probably also skimmed past the part where I said the Compressor Route should never be chopped as long as the Argentines are opposed.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
Didn't miss that part Jim, just comenting on what tools those guys were for going to annother country and declaring their style of climbing superior and their intentions to chop the rout. It's annother country fer christ sake and they are guests.. How rude can you possibly get.. Well at least they didn't bomb the piss out of it;)
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 8, 2009 - 10:32am PT
|
Gotta agree with that.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Bump for Greg's awesome "Cerro Torre" ascent account.
|
|
gregfromvermont
climber
Yosemite
|
|
Yes, being up there and seeing where Josh and Zac had gone around the bolts, I do think it is just a matter of time before the South East Ridge of Cerro Torre gets climbed sans bolts. They did some amazing climbing up an old British line I think. I'd like to do it without bolts.
Josh's thing ended up kind of twisted because of the initial secrecy surrounding there 'project'. Alpinist had a climber/photographer on stand by down there to try and document the chopping if it where to happen. Even if the route were to go sans bolts, I think what is done is done.
Some partied come up the west face and rap the Compressor route. Rollo and Colin rapped the route using the bolt stations after completing the Torres Traverse. And actually they climbed the bolt ladder to get down as well. You have to reverse the Monumental Traverse to descend. It is more difficult then going up too.
A note on the bolting: there were no bolts at all until just before the bolt traverse(10 pitches up). Then hard chimneys filled with ice go without bolts all the way through the Ice Towers. Then just before the head wall the bolts start again. Bringing that compressor 13 miles from town across two glaciers and then up another side glacier over the crevasses, and up 4000 ft of steep rock and ice must have been the real challenge back then. Once it got to that point, they pulled the cord and starting drilling, bringing it up another 1000ft for it's finally resting spot. Actually years later someone hauled it the the summit but Glowaz or somebody brought it back down the wall and put it back at it's high point for the movie.
Thanks for getting back in it Jim, I started the forum late on this one.
mt1000.I knew that when I chimed in on ST I'd get some sort of smack one way or another...
No, the mixed part which only added up to 8 hrs., is not considered the wall. Its only the approach, even though it was somewhere in the 5.10 WI3 M3 70 degree range. We don't count the death slabs when timing Half Dome. This approach would have been like climbing 3 Death Slabs covered in ice with deadly bergshrunds above you...
Yeah, you don't have to time yourself if you don't want to. But hanging around on Cerro Torre longer than you need to is like having a picnic on the I-5 median. I didn't invent speed climbing but it suits my climbing style well. Big objectives are easier light and fast, as well as potentially safer. We weren't going for the record, that's just the way it worked out.
The rules of climbing were mentioned....Maestri obviously had his own rules. El Cap is El Cap and Cerro Torre is just some random tower down south, right. Maybe Maestri wanted to be just like the big wallers of that time - who were drilling away in sunny California.
|
|
scuffy b
climber
Frigate Matilda
|
|
I think an earlier question went unanswered.
Why all the clove hitches on the lines fixed by Maestri and
Egger?
OK, an answer occurred to me, but I don't have big wall
experience, so what do I know?
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
When I siege climb I will sometimes fix my rope with clove hitches to many pieces within a pitch as I descend. This allows me to visually inspect short sections of rope for wind damage before using them. It also reduces rope stretch.
For me it is no big hassle, second nature, and reassuring when returning after a wind storm.
I think they have a little wind down in Patagonia as well,..
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
So the brash Americans go down there with magzine photographers in tow on a seceret agenda to chop this rout and have a media frenzy. No wonder them furriners don't like us..... jesus h godblasted christ Where the Fck do they find these people???
Im sorry but I am just haveing a hard time wraping my brain arround the level of arrogance that it takes to travel to a forgin country with paparazi in tow and the intent to chop their most populer route?? WTF???????????????????????????
|
|
Rankin
climber
Bishop, CA
|
|
Great thread Jim (you're a hero man). I love climbing history. Thanks for the entertaining trip report Greg. Don't worry about the super taco haters. The anonymity on the web brings out cowardice and rudeness, as no one really has to stand by what they say here.
|
|
shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
|
|
jim, and everybody, this was a great thread. i think maestri maybe did it with egger, but only like 1 or 2%. i'm still jacked to try and repeat the compressor route, after 4 unsucessful expeditions down there, it seems i cannot get up this route for the life of me. but i have imagined myself on top of the mushroom enough times that i would like to make the dream a reality as long as i can still effectively try to. it is an amazing, bigger than life type of a mountain, and its history is so controversial, everybody has their own opinion. ciao for now, steve
|
|
scuffy b
climber
Frigate Matilda
|
|
Thanks, Ron.
|
|
rbob
climber
|
|
"A note on the bolting: there were no bolts at all until just before the bolt traverse(10 pitches up). Then hard chimneys filled with ice go without bolts all the way through the Ice Towers. Then just before the head wall the bolts start again."
Greg, might want to check the math on this one... There are actually bolts all over the place... Right at the shoulder there are a cluster "practice bolts" splayed into the rock for no apparent reason. This isn't the only place where the nonsensical bolting happened... Then many of the belays are bolted. The "ice chimney" is full of fixed pins, and then exiting the chimney there is another bolt ladder before the ice towers. Then bolts after that up to the headwall.
With that being said, the route is totally kick ass.
Golden granite..
|
|
wrw
climber
|
|
Just for some historical perspective...
A picture of one of the cruxes on the sans bolt attempt ( Wharton/Smith)... Josh can be seen aiding around the snow blob on the headwall... The compressor route "bolt traverse" goes directly right at the orange looking dike into the first chimney...
|
|
sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
|
|
hey, anyone happen to have a copy of the article jon krakauer wrote about climbing cerro torre for the Outside magazine anniversy issue? used to have it, but can no longer find it...
|
|
Ezra
Social climber
WA, NC, Idaho Falls
|
|
Bump for the real deal!
|
|
Studly
Trad climber
WA
|
|
so even though I don't agree with chopping the route, if it was chopped would they chop the anchors also, and if so what would be the rap descent?
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
......... if so what would be the rap descent?
B.A.S.E
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2009 - 12:22am PT
|
I don't quite understand how it would be possible to declare a "bolt free" climb if you rapped from them. A dubious claim at best.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!