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Bart Fay
Social climber
Redlands, CA
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Feb 20, 2009 - 04:36pm PT
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>>>...prednisone, cyclosporine and rituxan all have serious side effects.
>>> Would only try them as a last resort.
Just a note: Prednisone and Cyclosporine are approximately the 15th and 50th most commonly
prescribed meds in the U.S .
Zillions of people take these. I've been on Prednisone for over 15years now.
It can absolutely be a wonder drug. I would list the conditions that its RX'd for, but its too long.
Its pretty cheap and a 21 day DosePak would certainly be worth a try at this point.
Your Doctor will think so too.
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Ezra
Social climber
WA, NC, Idaho Falls
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Feb 20, 2009 - 04:47pm PT
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Tar so your doc treated you for Tanea Solium already?
Albendazole would cover that 80-95% of the time.
Best,
your about out of ideas climbing doc.
-e
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local
Social climber
esprings
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Feb 20, 2009 - 04:59pm PT
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I won't be able to make it, but do have a couple of custom (weren't they all?) Persona items handcrafted by Tar that I'd be willing to send out for auction if there was interest.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Feb 20, 2009 - 05:02pm PT
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Tapeworm is said to be a false positive; exposure to eggs only.
That's been disputed...
Ezra: negative on your last post.
Want to see any more numbers?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Feb 20, 2009 - 05:09pm PT
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All our eyes should be blurry after this...
I've also got adrenal stress index and hormone panels.
This is from August 2007
The organic acids portion has since been retested; and those numbers have been brought into line.
I figure the elevated homocysteine level (pg 2) indicates atheriosclerosis and explains cold extremities.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Feb 20, 2009 - 05:27pm PT
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Billy a.k.a. Local,
That's very nice of you to suggest donating the items I made for you some years ago.
I'm sure there would be interest.
Please e-mail Rick Accomazzo concerning auction items.
raccomazzo@bmalaw.com
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Ezra
Social climber
WA, NC, Idaho Falls
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Feb 20, 2009 - 05:38pm PT
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Tar,
You have had the million dollar work up.
Now I know why we're raising money.
The elevated homocytstine levels are certainly a slight risk for vascular clot formation and atherosclerosis. Your hypertrophied forearm muscles may have occluded vessels and are being starved of oxygen? Seems possible. Who knows.
The elevated homocystine explains your increased MCV as homocystine is involved in folate metabolism; and to think i had just assumed you were a hard drinking vegan climber....:)
I absolutely would do folate and B12 and supplementation, pregnant women take folate to prevent neural tube defects so it's very safe.
see this link for homocystine info
http://herkules.oulu.fi/isbn9514270703/html/x305.html
The Tanea Solium antibodies may be a false positive, but tanea solium can encyst in either or both muscle and brain (although you haven't lost mental acuity as far as I can tell). Albendazole is cheep and not very toxic, I think. I would at least try it after all you have been through.
Still would see a rheumatologist, although probably less than 30% chance they would add any thing new, but they might.
The guy who posted on prednisone was correct, might be worth a try but definitately has toxicity including femoral head avascular necrosis as has happened to another climber on this forum. That being said prednisone can be life saving.
best
-e
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Feb 20, 2009 - 05:43pm PT
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All input on your part much appreciated Ezra.
You are helping to round out the picture and fill in some details.
All filed to my several notebooks.
Tonight I'll throw up the remaining adrenal and hormone numbers to complete the picture, such as it currently stands.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Feb 20, 2009 - 05:48pm PT
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Tarbuster
Mine eyes are not weary, but they need a beer. And sushi would
be nice too.
Have a great weekend!!!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Feb 20, 2009 - 05:52pm PT
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Your hypertrophied forearm muscles may have occluded vessels and are being starved of oxygen? Seems possible
That's what I imagine.
However, when the vascular surgeon listened in with Doppler, after I squeezed a handgrip for 5 or 10 minutes, he said blood flow was cranking right along.
Of course he was surprised that I could squeeze that grip like that, given my complaint, but it's all relative; I'm sure before the onset of this issue I could have continued for an hour.
As noted above, I have had quite a few B-12 injections and I have supplemented with folate + bioflavanoids.
[edit: how much folate? I'll check against my intake]
Of course I can post up my prodigious dietary supplementation program too...
Carried out for a solid year, except the hormones.
Some of it's still in place.
It all reeks of massive out-of-pocket expense.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Feb 20, 2009 - 06:01pm PT
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Feb 20, 2009 - 06:08pm PT
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All that hormone supplementation was expensive; about $250 a month. Pretty sure I only carried that out for two or three months, as it had no effect whatsoever on my general state of inflammation, and overall energy level.
My sister-in-law is a nutritionist and now secures for me, at cost, what I've retained of the above program, which is a good deal less than half of it in terms of intake volume.
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Ezra
Social climber
WA, NC, Idaho Falls
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Feb 20, 2009 - 06:28pm PT
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Tar,
In terms of data supported supplementation, Folate and B12 seem the most reasonable. Many multivitaimns have folate and are cheep. Good old fashioned Brewer's yeast is cheep, although it tastes like shite, but is actually good on top of popcorn. Brewer's yeast has B12 but not folate, I believe.
Maybe it's microvascular effects that are happening to your fore arms? That wouldn't be detected with doppler, I think.
There is no surgery for most microvascular situations, as far as I know.
You could always try a Statin ie simvastatin or lovestatin (zocor etc). Statins can maybe (and that's a big maybe) reverse microvascular atherosclerosis and decrease inflamation, at the least statins stop further atherosclerosis. Statins have known liver and muscle toxicities, so you'd have to watch for those effects, as any half competetnt physician would.
There are generic statins now, so reasonably cost effective treatment.
Ever tried a long acting blood vessel dialator, like cialis? Would help with any potential impotence problems and might make the wife happier...:)
Cialis Might help, seem to remember you had already tried vasodilators. Cialis of course has side effects too.
Best
-e
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Feb 20, 2009 - 06:48pm PT
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100-200, eh? I'm doing a party tomorrow for 108 so I'm warming up ;-).
Bro... I'm KNOTT sure how KNOTT do this... to be a part of this.
oh... and if Roy personally asks me to load my truck full of fish and head over then I'll be there 928-699-0663... just in case ;-)
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spectreman
Trad climber
CO
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Feb 20, 2009 - 07:25pm PT
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There is a treatment for chronic tendinosis/fibrosis problems called ASTYM. The treatment is based on research out of Ball State University in Indiana. The very basic theory is that if the muscle/tendon complex has become fibrosed, from any number of reasons, you have poor contractility, poor vascularization of the fibrosed areas, hypoxic tissues (lack of blood supply) and pain. The treatment is designed to cause a very low-grade inflammatory response in the involved tissues using special tools. The body reacts to the stimulus and will infiltrate the area with macrophages and other inflammatory agents that will effectively "eat up" the damaged scar and fibrotic tissues. The stimulus must be dosed or the reaction will be severe so it usually takes 6-12 sessions to treat an involved area. I use this treatment clinically as a physical therapist and I have been extremely happy with the outcomes. We can effectively treat problems that have historically been extremely resistant to conservative, non-invasive methods. The ASTYM orginazation does ongoing research and the clinical effectiveness is well documented with outcome studies. Something to consider.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Feb 20, 2009 - 09:24pm PT
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Yes, Specter Man,
I have your e-mail concerning ASTYM: thank you and I began to look into it...
(and hope you received my reply as well)
I also have a device in hand, called SCENAR, which incorporates a very detailed electromagnetic diagnostic and therapeutic regime. Invented by the Russians, the manuals are a bit difficult to comprehend due to the translation.
It seems to be connected with this outfit:
http://www.senergy.us/
Also have you heard about a manual therapeutic modality known as MAT?
(My guess is it's not as clinically documented as ASTYM, but a session has been contributed)
Yes Ezra,
I tried a two-week course of Procardia XL, which dilates the arterioles. I got nothing from it; either relief in the arms or relief from cold extremities. Yes the microvascular level; I can also easily imagine that and have thought as much...
I supplemented consistently, for a year, with 800mcg folic acid & 500 mcg B12 per day.
Now I am down around 400/250 respectively.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Feb 20, 2009 - 09:30pm PT
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Randy Vogel has logged in as supporting Roy the boyfriend.....he will be there,......as one of the Orange County Yuppie representations.....
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Feb 20, 2009 - 09:32pm PT
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Hi Randy,
I see that you're sort of tied up at the belay there, but say, can you spare a brother a dime?
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Feb 20, 2009 - 09:36pm PT
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Ezra
Social climber
WA, NC, Idaho Falls
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Feb 20, 2009 - 10:15pm PT
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Tar,
Cialis works on a totally different mechanism than procardia, I think they have been experimenting with it at high altitude for hace and hape, very interesting stuff. I'm not expert in that area, but might be worth a try after you have tried other stuff.
best
-e
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