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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 17, 2010 - 01:38am PT
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No long wait required!
Ken Boche's early run Dolt piton.
Ken's long thick horizontal below my later run Doltpin from the early seventies.
As Ken pointed out the delicate anvil on the piton would lead to an eye strike with any glancing blow so Dolt widened it considerably while still retaining the characteristic D eyeshape.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Aug 17, 2010 - 11:32am PT
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I posted these photos in the "Help with Vintage Pitons" thread. I think they belong here as well.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 17, 2010 - 11:45am PT
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Love the "DOLT-TEX" on the belay seat label!
Ken- Based on the level of finish on your Doltpin I assume that it originally had a dark, hot oil finish much like mine rather than a bright polish. The rails are very smooth but the rest has lots of hand in it!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Aug 18, 2010 - 12:46am PT
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Steve, I am totally jealous that you are actually touching a Dolt Cobra Hook.........Dog!
And BooDawg I totally Boo you for not returning my emails.....Hamster! I still would love to have a closer photo and measurements of the Dolt nut tool holder............
by chance did you save me a Dolt hanger?
Fine!...you guys swim in your dolt and see if I care........tear......tear.....
Rock on, Marty
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 18, 2010 - 01:07am PT
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Steve,
With most antiques removing the patina is a definite no-no!
That's why I rarely shower.
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BooDawg
Social climber
On the Road, Pacific Slope
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Aug 18, 2010 - 02:01am PT
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Marty, I apologize for not returning your 2 emails; they caught me when I was in the middle of a very intense planning period, trying to put together the elements of this 5 week trip of which I am now in middle.
Since you have called me out in public, let me respond: The tone of your emails were completely about why I should provide you with your wish list. There was little in them about service to the greater community.
"I have a huge Dolt collection..."
"I am looking for a few pieces:
Dolt nut tool holder - I have 106 different nut tools.
Dolt Cobra Hook - I have 206 different hooks.
Dolt Bolt hanger diagonal bend dark (you have two the same) I have over 1200 different bolt hangers.
Dolt short piton - I have over 500 pitons from the 1930s and up.
As far as Dolt items I have over 120 and hope to create a book someday..."
"Am I giving you enough work to do?"
The answer to that is a resounding, "Yes," considering the planning that I was doing at the time and that the tone is that it is all about you and your collection.
Furthermore, week in and week out I see S.G. posting up important historical articles and other materials that educate and otherwise benefit those who frequent S.T. And Seattle was a stop on this road trip, so I wanted to meet him in person. As my personal appreciation for how he serves this community, I asked him what he might want from my collection. He had zero Dolt pins or hooks. I have a few; I'm actually a fairly generous guy.
The tone of your posting above is similar to your emails:
Steve, I am totally jealous that you are actually touching a Dolt Cobra Hook.........Dog!
And BooDawg I totally Boo you for not returning my emails.....Hamster! I still would love to have a closer photo and measurements of the Dolt nut tool holder............
by chance did you save me a Dolt hanger?
It seems to be all about you, Marty.
S.G. went to S. CA and recorded Mark Powell's remembrances. He's offered to come to Hawaii to photograph my clatch rather than asking me to do it for him. He has a generousity and selflessness that I admire.
My suggestion to you is to relax, to not take how others relate to each other as a personal affront to yourself, to practice selflessness on a daily basis, and, well, I could go on, but I have to catch a very early flight to CA tomorrow a.m. to begin the next phase of this sojourn to Yosemite, Tuolumne, and the East Side... I wish I had time to visit you in AZ. If you plan a trip to Hawaii, please look me up; there might be a Dolt bolt hanger in it for you.
Sending you my aloha is
Ken
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 18, 2010 - 02:04am PT
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There is an article in the new Rock & Ice (#188) about Tom Frost and his photography, by Cory Rich. Including many photos of Frost's not previously published, and the story behind the photos. Well worth a look.
Frost's story is that they were preparing for the second ascent of the Nose, in 1960, when Bill "Furror" (Feuerer) stopped by and handed his Leica to Tom, saying "You'll want it." So the photo of Pratt and Robbins with the gear was the first photograph that Frost ever took.
"Furror". There should be a furore about such ignorance.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 18, 2010 - 02:37am PT
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I went climbing with Ghost today at Index and he was making fun of my baby rucksack. I said, "hey, at least it's a Dolt pack." I don't know how many years I've had it, but it's still working fine.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Aug 18, 2010 - 04:55am PT
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Uhhh,
> He had zero Dolt pins or hooks.
Probably a misunderstanding or a technicality - in 2007 Steve posted a photo of his Dolt "Non-piton?" (nut tool):
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=468503&tn=20
A couple of weeks ago, my partner needed to place a fixed pin on a new route, in one of those spots where the crack goes straight down and a nut doesn't work. He had been short on Lost Arrows, but found some deal on ebay where a guy sold him a quantity of Long Dongs at a good price. He just cut 'em off with a bandsaw - now they are good pitons! :-)
I sort of feel sorry for Marty; I think he was just trying to say that he's a "serious collector"; that your stuff was desired and would be appreciated. I guess it backfired and maybe it looked like the stuff would be lost in the volume of his collection. Of course, I'm sure Steve appreciates it, too, so I'm not saying it is an easy decision to make.
I guess I wonder - is there a "right" way for a person to state their interest in an item? Would it work to say something like "I have been looking for a [Dolt Cobra?] for [20?] years, and I would really like to have a chance to bid on it. My starting bid would be [$300?]" Or does it kind of backfire? I suppose ultimately, even if you are the high bidder, it does not mean you would appreciate it the most; it might just mean you have more spare cash than the rest of the bidders. And I think Marty may have been at a disadvantage because he doesn't post as much on supertopo as Steve does.
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BooDawg
Social climber
On the Road, Pacific Slope
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Aug 18, 2010 - 09:55am PT
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Clint, I appreciate and take to heart your perspective and Marty's. Part of the campfire is about building relationships. I don't think there is a "right" way to express interest in another's possessions that will work for everyone and how they relate to each other. I remain open to Marty's desires as I tried to make clear. Had I been going to AZ, and had other conditions been more favorable, Marty might have some of what he covets. That door is not closed, but he has a better sense of what will work for me now. As I said, I'm actually a generous guy, but relationships have to work in two directions. Thank you for your comments; I always appreciate your presence here on S.T.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 18, 2010 - 07:42pm PT
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Ken- Would you take a guess at the start and end dates of production for the delicate eye shape like yours. You mentioned elsewhere that yours were a early run when you went up on the eighth ascent of the Nose.
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BooDawg
Social climber
On the Road, Pacific Slope
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Aug 18, 2010 - 08:42pm PT
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Guessing the beginning date of the production run is easier than guessing the end. Don and I did the Nose in March of 1967, so my guess is that it these pins began to be made in Jan. or Feb. of '67 because upon further reflection on your & my conversations, Bill Dolt brought a bunch of the newly minted pegs to West Ridge and asked us to take them up the nose to test them. That partly answers your question to me about why I even had some when they were so expensive compared to L.A.'s.
I think the best way to get the beginning of the production of the new-improved design would be to puruse Dolt's ads in Summit and see when the new DoltPeg designs appear. Don or others may have a better way to guess this than I.
Edit: Checking Clint's link to your Steve's earlier posting which was Oct. 22, 1967 shows that Dolt changed the design almost immediately following our ascent of the Nose, probably based on the information we gained about how the early model performed on our climb.
We only brought back 4 pegs that we'd actually pounded on up on the Nose which were the ones which he had gold-plated. I cannot find mine and haven't heard whether Don still has the one that Dolt gave to him. A very few of us have insights into where the other 2 now lie, but these 4 would be the rarest of the rare.
Edit 2: I just spoke with Don, and he has no recollection of the gold-plated DoltPegs, nor does he believe that he even has any DoltPegs at all in his possession. But he DOES HAVE an old box of hardware that he hasn't looked at in many years that we can look at when I visit him over Labor Day. Should be a fun time!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 18, 2010 - 10:39pm PT
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Shouldn't be too hard to spot a gold plated Dolt piton!
Thanks for the background. I will try to sort out the ads.
Don will be with you in a minute! From Summit October 1966.
Classic Dolt photo of Powell pioneering the Stovelegs. From Summit July/August 1966.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Aug 21, 2010 - 01:10am PT
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BooDawg, I am not after your gear, and I am sorry that I have somehow got you upset. You have many fun words to describe me, but all I was asking for was a photo. I have searched for 20+ years for anything about Dolt to preserve in a future museum or create a book about his life. I feel that the contributions that Dolt made to American climbing is beyond special and needs to be preserved. I am not hording the Dolt, just trying to get it to somewhere whom builds a museum. If the Yosemite Museum was not traveling this stuff would already be on display. Go Chicken Skinner Go!
Your gear is special and I don't need any of your gear, just a photo of your Dolt Nut Tool Holder would be sweet since so far you have the only evidence of its existence. If possible please post it on this thread to add to this amazing body of history.
Have tons of fun on your vacation!
Marty
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Aug 21, 2010 - 01:11am PT
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But Steve,............You are still a Dog! :)
Dolt advertised his 3 Cobra hooks in Summit Mag dec issue 1968 page 28, then April 1970 summit mag page 33 states "SIXTY COBRAS ON MY BENCH, Which one is for a pretty wench? DOLT"
So this evidence shows there are at least 63 Cobra hooks in existence.
Marty
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Aug 21, 2010 - 01:48am PT
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Chicken Skinner, I got your/this photo from the Salathe Thread. This is a photo of John Salathes bolts he used on routes. I believe that the spoon end pick looking thing on the right side of the photo is a Dolt bolt hole scraper. It is shown with the hammers, first scraper, lower left corner in the Dolt 1958 catalog
Rock on! Marty
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 21, 2010 - 01:50am PT
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So how well did these hooks actually work? They seem great for some pockets or for ledges, but seem sketch for some sloping stuff that I have come across.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 21, 2010 - 02:03am PT
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The Cobra page from Summit December 1968. I posted as Mimi previously...
They would have worked as well as most until the Logan hook came along.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Aug 21, 2010 - 11:07am PT
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Hey Marty!
After some internal debate, I decided to leave the Dolt Nut Tool in Hawaii, but I'll get you the photos that you seek. You'll just have to wait until Mid-Sept.
Just so you know, I'm not upset with you, and I DO appreciate your motivations and your efforts in collecting both the gear and the history.
Rock on! Ken
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 21, 2010 - 11:10am PT
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Where are you guys? Sailing back up this way for some killer sushi?!?
Edit- Stuck in RBII. LOL
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