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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 10, 2008 - 12:32pm PT
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I think so.
Something interesting just occurred to me;
in your earlier post you did something that illustrates just how we play tricks on ourselves. Small details sometimes get shunted around in our minds that lead to discrepancies which in turn can flare into disagreements such as we saw in the nature of this thread.
To wit; we did our recon of the tower that I had spotted years earlier from 3/17 thru 19 last year. Charlie wasn't missing any more. His body had been found in December.
No big deal, but I just pointed it out to show things can get a little out of joint leading to subsequent disagreements.
Soooo,... you're off to the Winds?
Where do you keep the Galils?
LOL
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wbw
climber
'cross the great divide
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Jul 10, 2008 - 12:38pm PT
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Most of us must live with the consequences of our actions and decisions.
Friendship exists at different levels; true, lasting friendship is rare and in my opinion can be compared to family. It seems that at this time, if the writer of said article were truly a friend, a greater level of support could have been offered than this article apparently does. (I haven't seen the article.) I am sure that writer will be living with the consequences of his article in a much more significant way than his subject.
I, like most of the folks posting here have been inspired by Jeff Lowe for decades. His legacy speaks for itself. I still remember his ice book, and his suggestion (don't remember the exact quote) that staying warm in winter climbing comes from the fire and passion within. I've always interpreted this to mean that you gotta want to be there, when the going gets tough, to persevere. This idea has been particularly inspiring to me, and transcends the climbing experience.
I also find it inspiring that in the midst of such a terrible disease, Jeff had the courage to climb a Zion wall. You continue to inspire us with your fire and passion.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 10, 2008 - 12:48pm PT
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Actually, Jeff only went up there because Pete said if he did he'd give him a sponge bath.
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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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Jul 11, 2008 - 09:37am PT
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Jeff,
I read the article today, purely because of this thread. To me it seemed very flattering towards you. It did discuss some of your failings and struggles, but I thought in a quite kind and respectful way. I did not get any sense of, "Great Hero is really a Jerk!"
The tenor that I got was, "Really amazing guy who is as human as the rest of us in his struggles and failings, continues to struggle on with a challenge that will eventually kill him."
I had no idea about your MS or any of your other personal history. It is kind of inspiring in a way to think that you struggle and screw up as much as me and yet you continue to do amazing things.
You may disagree with Pete's perspective and wish that he had only written all good or from your perspective, but why have friends if you can not tolerate other perspectives. Frankly,if the worst any of your friends have done is write articles about you like this one, you have some pretty high caliber and nice friends. Also, the most valuable thing about having friends is that they try to be honest with us and that they do share their differing perspectives. No one else will bother.
It appeared to me that about 80% of the article was flattery about all of your accomplishments and 20% was about your struggles. It is understandable that you would focus in on the parts that you disagree with, but that is just human nature.
You specifically complained that it implied you were thinking of suicide, but I really did not get that impression from the article. To me it just brought home the seriousness of your situation, that 15% of people with your condition do commit suicide. It made me wonder about how I might hold up in the final stages of a painful disease. I am glad that you are not there yet, and I am glad that I don't have to face your particular struggles.
You questioned how Pete could think you might contemplate suicide when you have so much to live for. I think it is best to accept others concerns as being honest and worthwhile rather than malicious. There is no benefit in belittling Pete or the rest of us for wondering if suicide might be an option at some point. Certainly greater people than yourself have committed suicide. All you have to do is state that you do have a lot to live for and that suicide is not an option for you.
I hope that you will continue to inspire us with your courage and resourcefulness in the challenges ahead.
Paul
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Jul 11, 2008 - 11:42am PT
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and regardless of what is written, Jeff
we love you,
deeply and sincerely and
for ever.
sincerely,
Ray
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Mees
climber
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Jul 11, 2008 - 12:07pm PT
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Jeff,
you are a legend to legends, warts and all. Pete's stuff has always seemed pretty good and he seems like a decent guy never met either of you though. Maybe you're both yeti aliens from the planet ice nine like the enquirer said you were that's more what I was hoping to hear about lol. I think most of the people who know about you and care about you could care less what Outside says--
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 11, 2008 - 02:54pm PT
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hey there... say, i had a question for jello, jeff, about his book that he may be writing.. do you ever check your email, jello? was just wondering, as it would sound like some good solid history, etc... keep on enjoying utah, and god bless...
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
monsoon time
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Jul 11, 2008 - 02:56pm PT
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you need to throw some NWA at that dood
"don't quote me boy, i ain't said sh*t"
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jul 11, 2008 - 04:32pm PT
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Jello,
I just read the article and it certainly didn't make me think any less of you, in fact it increased my admiration for you.
My impression is that the less flattering stuff largely rehashes much of what was already in "A Mountain of Trouble," although that may not have been accurate either. Also, just my opinion, but your brother and ex didn't come across as cold or shrewish, from their quotes it was apparent to me that they care for you quite a bit.
But you should write a rebuttal of any inaccuracies.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 11, 2008 - 05:18pm PT
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I just wrote a letter to the editor and have requested my brother-in-law (a magazine editor like my sister) to give me some feedback before I send it.
Y'all can do the same.
Here it is;
Dear Editor,
It is not possible for any climber in the world to claim substantial knowledge of the sport if unfamiliar with the superlative body of work accomplished by Jeff Lowe.
Already a legend when we first crossed paths on a wall thirty-plus years ago I was thrilled when he spent some time giving me info about Zion, a place where I subsequently put up some routes including Touchstone, the climb depicted in the start of your article about him. Indeed, I was the person who caught his fall that day.
I haven't known Pete Takeda nearly as long and cannot say how it was that your staff cajoled him into writing such material about Jeff that was so hurtful. It certainly wasn't necessary to say such things in order to show "balance" even if it had been true.
Does Outhouse magazine have no conscience? Jeff has family!
In the years that we've been friends I've come to see Jeff's human side, his failings, his feet of clay, but unlike most others he is one who can take such observations to heart. Pete's airing of such exaggerations smacks of a partner walking over the body of somebody no longer able to benefit him as a ropemate.
He has made a Faustian bargain,.... and we know what that makes YOU.
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L
climber
Tiger Tiger burning bright...
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Jul 11, 2008 - 06:05pm PT
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Goll dang it, Ron...perfect.
I love you!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 11, 2008 - 08:31pm PT
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What's that old quote
"Rumors of my demise are greatly exaggerated"
We are all living in our own worlds. It's hard enough to know yourself and yet, others see us even less clearly.
It's an unfortunate situation but many sad situations become opportunities.
In this case, a chance to connect with many folks and say what your attitudes and feelings truly are.
In the end, we're all dust and perhaps we only take what's in our heart with us. Happy that you're taking the opportunity to keep that heart open inside of turning it off.
Peace
karl
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Jul 11, 2008 - 09:29pm PT
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That would be hillarious, Stich.
Well put, Ron.
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goatboy smellz
climber
colorado
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Jul 11, 2008 - 10:11pm PT
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Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2008 - 12:08am PT
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Draft of a letter to Outside. Full decontruction of the article to follow, for ST eyes only:
Dear Editor:
Thank you for recognizing Ogden, Utah, as one of the best towns in America for your readers to live in, or visit. Indeed, mayor Godfrey and his administration--together with business leaders such as Curt Geiger (Descente US), Mike Dowse (Amer Sports), and many others--deserve much credit for turning the economy of my old home town around.
I was also very pleased to note your mention of my year-round Holographic Ice Tower(TM) design, that we plan to build in the center of town. I am fortunate to be a part of a really dynamic team that is revatalizing Ogden in such a positive way.
The small non-profit that I direct, Ogden Climbing Parks (www.ogdenclimbingparks.com), will be responsible for operating the tower, once it is constructed. At that time, we'll expand the climbing programs for school kids and disabled groups that OCP has recently begun, to include the tower venue. The tower will also be host to national and international competittions, corporate team-building, seminars, festivals, etc.
Again, thank you!
On the other hand:
What were your feature editors thinking, when they thought up the over-wrought profile on me? Am I a climbing demi-god? No, although I don't mind accepting Steve House's accolade (check's in the mail, Steve). Have I had two bankruptcies that were major business disappointments? Yes, and I would like to apologize publicly right here to those who were hurt in those failures.
But, have I alienated many friends? Hardly any. How about my ex-wives, are they bitter and "hateful", as your piece suggests? Categorically, no, as they avowed in e-mails and phone calls with your editors-- to no avail.
My life is actually a big love fest. I'm serious. Your profile brought calls and emails from around the country asking what they could do to help correct this wrong.
Pete doesn't get me--he's twisted quotes and taken things out of context--and his last and most poingnant story about a rift between the two of us over money, is an absolute fabrication. I feel violated and slimed. By Pete and Outside.
I'll have a private talk with Pete. No use talking to the minions of a sensationalistic media juggernaught.
I trust you'll show some respect by printing this letter verbatum?
Sincerely,
Jeff Lowe
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 12, 2008 - 12:13am PT
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Five bucks says they won't.
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L
climber
Tiger Tiger burning bright...
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Jul 12, 2008 - 12:29am PT
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Good one, mighty Jello.
Jugger-NOT...very good.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 12, 2008 - 12:33am PT
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hey there jello... say, that sounds nice, well done, and calm (what most folks now-a-days are not able to lay before others)... it is displayed nice and proper, and done as if any two (or more) guys would do, if they sat down at a table to get a chance to check-out what happened, and set the pieces a'right...
whenever things are done in plain simple truth, that IS to be remembered well.... looks like you had some good reflection time, too, (edit, helps to get all one's bases covered for a good letter, during hard situations)...
dont know if those in the magazine buisness though, will let it shine, but some do, when folks want to state correction-truths, and you should justly be able to do so, since the article was about you... best wishes to you...
bathe it with some prayer, as you send it on its way, so it will have reach far and wide, and reach hearts... :)
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jul 12, 2008 - 12:55am PT
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Nice Jeff....you still have that fire burning inside.
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Doug Buchanan
Mountain climber
Fairbanks Alaska
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Jul 12, 2008 - 01:25am PT
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I just skimmed a few of the first and last posts.
I laughed.
It is 2008. What I learned about the institution of journalists, the hard way plus a lot of questions, and conveyed to others, is still being learned the hard way, not unlike what military folks are learning from their current actions rather than from history.
ALL YOU OTHER GUYS, FELLOW CLIMBERS, LEARN FROM THE WORDS OF THIS THREAD, RATHER THAN THE HARD WAY.
For a flawlessly describable reason methodically creating knowledge, rather than the meaningless sound byte process that creates the ignorance of people who function on sound bytes, journalists cannot possibly present truth, even if they very sincerely try.
An individual can present truth. A journalist cannot. Notice the difference.
Journalists routinely decry such statements, rather than ask related questions. Individuals recognize the possibility, and can ask the questions to learn the related knowledge.
A member of an institution will defend the institution on cue, or he would not be a member of that institution.
An individual can question all institutions. Institution members will not effectively question their institution or any institution. If they knew how, wars could not exist.
All institutions hold controlling contradictions. There is otherwise no need for any institution because the minds of the involved individuals can function as they would anyway, without having created or joined the institution.
Institutionally created POWER corrupts (alters the perceptions of the mind). Institutions create the power of two or more people, not knowledge. Individual minds hold no power. They only hold reasoning ability. The power-based institution of journalists alters the perceptions of the journalists.
Simply do not talk to journalists, especially those functioning in an ego-based activity group. The mere existence of ego in the institutions of the group and journalists, noticeably alters what an individual, as an individual, would say of himself or others.
Write your own story and upload it on the internet. Journalists have nothing to offer. The money will not be worth their describing what you can more accurately describe with your own words. Get any money another way.
Let the climbing rags write about climbing, not about YOU as a climber if you are wise.
I just look at the pictures in the magazines, and read the words of the cool SuperTopo colleagues who write their own words that only they edit.
Now consider that these words will have no effect. The lesson learned by Jeff, myself and a few hundred million other people, will be learned the hard way by a few more hundred million, for the same reason I did not learn it when people told me to never talk to journalists.
Enjoy the show, and laugh a lot. If you are laughing, you are not able to be angry, and you are enjoying the show.
DougBuchanan.com
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