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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Feb 11, 2008 - 01:28pm PT
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The problem was that it's a crappy idea. How'd you like if if the government rolled your retirement into the stock market when he proposed to? What percentage has the Dow, Nasdaq or other indexes gone DOWN since then?
About plan to privatize SS...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/07/AR2006020701865.html
Since Feb 8, 2006, (10859) the Dow Jones 30 Industrial Average has gone down -12.45%. (12,211 today)
In other words the Dow is up 12.45% since then.
Just another injection of reality...
This thread now returns to its regularly scheduled fantasies and b-slapping.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Feb 11, 2008 - 01:39pm PT
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Khanom, my advice is not to let LEB, or your reaction to her, make you less a person than you are. There's always somebody that bugs us.
Plus, this is a good thread. Start an LEB dis=appreciation thread. Could be popular and wouldn't be harmed by LEBification.
Who knows if LEB is right about the cold being a factor but it's certainly worth thinking about and so, I think, one of her better contributions to this thread.
Peace
Karl
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Feb 11, 2008 - 01:43pm PT
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No LEB - I have not had a cigarette at all since the attack, and never will again. One chest full of flaming steak knives was quite enough, thank you...
I *do* think the cooldown is part of it - keep in mind the first attack went on for over 4 hours before I stopped skiing and dropped...
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Feb 11, 2008 - 02:12pm PT
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For those of you worrying about losing your appeal to health insurance providers:
My experiences was this:
Once they ditch you, you can get cobra for three years. YOU pay the whole premium. When the cobra runs out, you are totally screwed if you are deemed uninsurable. And if you have something bad, like me, then you WILL be uninsureable.
Some states have insurance 'plans' (more like scams once you read them nad find out how bad your coverage is for a HUGE premium) for people in this situation. THEY SUCK!!!
Once you are granted disability, then you will get medicaid. THIS SUCKS TOO, although it is much better than nothing. The reason medicaid sucks is that IF you can find someone who will treat you for the pittance they will get paid, medicaid will deny any new expensive drug or treatment that might be prescribed.
The only reason my doctors see me now is because they saw me for years before I had to go on medicaid. Almost all good doctors refuse to take new patients on medicaid because medicaid pays them so little they actually lose money treating you, as in supplies and other stuff they use in your treatment etc often COST THEM MORE than they will get paid for treating you.
BY the way, did you know that FEDERAL BC/BS has a "no prexisitng conditions exclusion" policy? that's right, if you have fed BC/BS, you can't be excluded.
Fed BC/BS used to be the gold standard of insurance plans. I had it.
DON'T you think that what's good enough for CONGRESS is good enough for YOU????????
WELL, CONGRESS DOES NOT THINK SO. THEY THINK YOU DESERVE A LOT LESS!!!!!!!!
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
heart's all over the world tonight
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Feb 11, 2008 - 02:27pm PT
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LEB if you are a real person i'm sorry if you were upset and i'm sorry for your loss. and i wish you all the best. i don't know if i would understand how you felt when you lost your dad tho, everyone experiences grief differently and we were at totally different stages in life.
plus, i don't cry.
but someday after all the emptiness, i hope you find the gift
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
heart's all over the world tonight
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Feb 11, 2008 - 02:37pm PT
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yo LEB - i think we just posted @ same time - check the post above your new one
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Feb 11, 2008 - 03:00pm PT
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Lois, I can't answer most of your questions.
As for waht happens if you are cured, HAHA, you are never cured with cancer, until you die from something else.
If for some reason the federal government hired me, then assuming FED BC/BS still has no pre-existing exclusion, I would have good coverage. I don't know how it works with other employers, but if they are big enough, maybe it is the same way.
U.S. CITIZENS should be able to buy the fed BC/BS coverage, paying the full premium, at the very least. That would be HUGELY expensive for the individual, especially poor people, so maybe some assistance program could come in for those in dire need, but at least then US citizens would have some chance for decent health care.
Our country should take an interest in the health of its people. Private insurers only take an interest in the people's money.
AGAIN, why congress thinks it deserves better care than the average citizen is beyond me.
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Feb 11, 2008 - 03:11pm PT
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"AGAIN, why congress thinks it deserves better care than the average citizen is beyond me."
Worth bumping for that sentiment alone dirt - you nailed that one.
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Feb 11, 2008 - 03:41pm PT
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That makes perfect sense to me.
Why should an insurance company, that paid for a patient treatment at a hospital, pay again for something caught there?!
The hospital will get sued and their insurance company will pay. Then their insurance company will force them to "clean up their act."
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
heart's all over the world tonight
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Feb 11, 2008 - 04:26pm PT
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LEB, i don't have anything against tears. i think they're good for you.
i understand about missing your dad. i've been missing mine more this year than i have in a long time. my best friend pointed out to me that it's probly bcuz i have accomplished quite a bit this year than i have in a long time.
i just miss feeling like there is someone who really cared about me and understood me. my mom and i don't really get along too well. like, at a family gathering over the holiday we got into a little argument about school funding and i got pissed and was like, "FINE, maybe i'll just get a job at the strip club"
and my mom goes, "o, i had a friend who put herself thru school that way" as tho this is an option i really should consider.
it was just annoying, like, the one thing i wanted to hear was, "no, whatever you do, don't do THAT". knaw mean? she just doesn't get it.
"life is 10 percent what you make it, and 90 percent how you take it." - irving berlin
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screelover
Mountain climber
Canuckistan
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Feb 11, 2008 - 04:37pm PT
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To all,
Well, I thought I'd just pipe in to say that, speaking as someone outside the U.S., it is mighty weird following all of this discussion about who gets what covered by their insurer, or cut off if they actually get sick, or goes broke if they either don't have insurance, or not enough, etc.
I think that one of the real benefits of universal medicare is that these sort of conversations don't take place. There is much greater focus on healthcare - on staying healthy and dealing effectively with sickness or injury if it happens.
As Mighty Hiker pointed out, the Canadian system is far from perfect, but following this thread really shows me that it is a whole lot better. The system you all are describing sounds to me like a nightmare for many of the people who have to use it.
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Feb 11, 2008 - 05:02pm PT
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LEB, of course, eventually John Q pays either way - on average. That is what insurance is all about. If you buy it, you know the rules of the game.
On average, John Q, of course, would be better off without insurance. Then the full payout only pays health care professionals and not mathematicians, risk managers, lawyers, clerks, ... in addition to the HC pros.
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wbw
climber
'cross the great divide
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Feb 11, 2008 - 05:49pm PT
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All of this anecdotal information is interesting, and spells out one very grim reality. THE INSURANCE COMPANIES HAVE US BY THE HUEVOS! And unfortunately, no single politician has the power to do much about it.
So what can we do to "harness" the collective power of millions of middle class (okay, lower middle class ) people that are getting screwed, while the executives in the insurance and health care industries laugh all of the way to the bank?
One tangible suggestion from my own experience: Always try to negotiate the price down. Always, always always! There is something called the *contract rate* that health care providers use to bill insurance companies. Usually, by having medical insurance a person has access to this rate. But not always. Insist on the contract rate in all cases, as many health care providers get very uncomfortable when asked to justify not giving the contract rate. Ask questions, make phone calls, check the details of bills. The folks in both the insurance and health care fields make mistakes.
Taking this approach has the potential to take a lot of time, but in the past year alone I have saved my family hundreds of dollars by being more vigilant, and negotiating. As hopeful as I am that Obama might make some real changes, I just don't see the f'ed up health care system as something that can be changed until enough people get pissed off, and challenge the system in every case.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Feb 11, 2008 - 05:58pm PT
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"focus is on staying healthy".....as mentioned by our Canadian poster a few up.
Drug companies wouldn't want that to happen. Oh no, no, no! N.O.!
The other day I was perusing the pages in the Village Voice, where they post ads looking for people to participate in drug therapy studies.
The ad was geared toward men and uncontrolled anger. The questions were like "do you find yourself getting overly upset when driving a car? Or extremely frustrated with your coworkers?"
They are working on a drug to pacify the guy who gets road rage, it seems. Ummmm....geee. Can you see the television ads?
The guy gets cut off, he flips the bird, honks his horn, and snaps at his wife when she makes some sort of "Ohhh no, here we go again..." remark.
They are headed to a restaurant to meet another couple, and upon arrival the other guys says "Gee, you look like you had a rough ride. What happened?" he sheepishly explains how "it happened again" and "You understand, don't you!?"
The good friend then tells him about the miracle his doctor has prescibed.
I wonder what they will name this drug once it comes to market.
The BIGGEST hurdle to universal health care in the US, I am guessing with not much effort, are the drug manufacturers and the insurance companies.
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Feb 11, 2008 - 06:01pm PT
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It is worth pointing out that there is NO office of disease prevention per se in the US - am I right ?
ounce of prevention, pound of cure - which makes you more money ?
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Feb 11, 2008 - 06:10pm PT
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Why is it that so many consumers of anything - insurance, gasoline, food, cars, whatever, think they are getting ripped off?
Get real people! Take a course in markets. Or use your head to think. Every industry that you buy from has competitors. Every one of them has to make enough money to pay its employees to buy things from the other industries.
And nobody is holding a gun to your head saying you have to buy! So everything you buy is priced fairly, at least for you, because you bought it - willingly.
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Feb 11, 2008 - 06:30pm PT
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linux, Mac, ...
Next.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Feb 11, 2008 - 07:10pm PT
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"That makes perfect sense to me.
Why should an insurance company, that paid for a patient treatment at a hospital, pay again for something caught there?!
The hospital will get sued and their insurance company will pay. Then their insurance company will force them to "clean up their act."
Why not apply this same logic to othe rcauses of health problems? For example, why should your health insurance cover car insurance caused by other people? You can sue them and their insurance company will pay.
Also, who decided when an infection is "nosocomial?" And if the patient has been in multiple facilities, which facility does the patient sue? How is it determined that the infection is caused by someone associated with the facility and not the patient's visiting doctor or a visting friend or relative?
And, if no one is paying tot fight the infection, how does the patient get well enough to the point where he can go to a lawyer and sue? It's kind of hard to start fighting legal battles when you are flat on your back struggling to survive.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Feb 11, 2008 - 07:17pm PT
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"That is what insurance is all about. If you buy it, you know the rules of the game."
Raise your hand if you read your entire health insurance policy AND all rules, schedules and policies referenced by it. What, no hands?
"On average, John Q, of course, would be better off without insurance."
That would be true if John Q's underlying health costs would be the same with or without the insurance, but that is rarely the case. The insurance companies function like "buyer's clubs" in that they are able to negotiate signficantly cheaper rates--sometimes 10% or less then that of the the "cash" price John Q would otherwise be charged.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 11, 2008 - 07:29pm PT
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"One can cite no finer example than the Clinton impeachment trial. If we did not make perfect asses of ourselves on the world stage over that one, I don't know what else would. I can see the various countries of Europe rolling over on the floor laughing and holding their sides on that one."
Especially as most U.S. presidents up to and including at least Lyndon Johnson had affairs, or even mistresses - while in office. And as many U.S. politicans, of all parties and beliefs, have little to boast about when it comes to probity and morals.
The religious right in particular are all too ready to throw the first stone. Hypocrites! Though I have to give them credit for doing a fine job of proving, yet again, that religion has no place in politics.
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