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WBraun
climber
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Well Christ was 100% bonafide. He was no mortal.
But, I agree with your last two lines wes.
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WBraun
climber
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It's in the Vedas
You'll find it in the Srimad-Bhagavatam.
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WBraun
climber
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Yeah khanom
In the early 80's I carried a book by Lao Tze with me everywhere.
He was good.
But some people gave me sh'it for it because I was carrying Lao Tze around instead of a climbing guide book.
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WBraun
climber
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So who wrote the books Locker?
Can you tell us?
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WBraun
climber
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I saw them, ...... and wanted to to see what you thought.
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WandaFuca
Gym climber
San Fernando Lamas
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What we need is a climbing guide by an anonymous author, written thousands of years ago, that gives descriptions that don't match experience, that commands you to climb a certain way because it says so, that warns of dire consequences if you do not climb that way or do not perform specified rituals and ablutions before during and after the climb.
Preferably this climbing guide should be written in verse.
It should list millions of sub-deities that were born of another god's magic pudding, etc. It should describe how they hold sway over some insignificant aspect--such as the god of hummocks. It should warn how you must appease any demi-gods whose realms you may encounter on a climb or risk coming back as one of those really teeny tiny red bugs.
Then you can have arguments in camp with those folks that follow a more "advanced" climbing guide book that tells them what techniques are abominations, but also tells them to love their fellow climbers, but also tells them they'll be hurled into a molten pluton if they commit these abominations, but also tells them that if they have a personal relationship with the guidebook author's son all will be forgiven, they can spend eternity climbing on Olympic Mons, etc., and they'll make it on the wiki climber list and can never be kicked off.
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WBraun
climber
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Well Khanom
I wasn't fully completely satisfied and didn't have all the answers I was looking for in Loa Tze until I got to the Vedas.
It's all up to you of far and deep you want to go.
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WBraun
climber
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Well Khanom
Partial realization of the Absolute Truth as impersonal Brahman is incomplete understanding. That is instructed as hazardous understanding of the Absolute Truth.
Ramanujacarya, gave this purport that the real identity of the Absolute Truth must be understood in terms of both His knowledge and His characteristics.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, Ca
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That is funny. Jeff smacks the nail squarely and everyone just keeps on talkin' ...
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slayton
Trad climber
Morongo Valley, Ca
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"born of another god's magic pudding, etc. .. .. .. .. but also tells them . .. .. ... but also tells them that if they have a personal relationship with the guidebook author's son . .. . "
That is classic! Thanks, I needed that.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Thanks WB, yep that stuff is soo deep. one can relate to what was written but it was 9 THOUSAND YEARS AGO!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Cintune's link (in the above post) to The Who's "The Seeker" reminded me that Townshend/The Who examined the whole question of religious belief in much greater depth in "Tommy"
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WBraun
climber
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Khanom
You are touching on nihilistic, voidism, impersonalism and mayavadi philosophy.
We should take these up in person and not on this forum as they require a lot of dialogue and it's much easier to discuss, as to writing posts here and constantly bumping the thread up.
Next time you're in the valley ......
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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religion is the greatest celebration of man's folly.
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WBraun
climber
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Interpretation they can give to support their business, eating meat.
So Christ had to deal with a bunch of killers and to save them from further Karmic reaction for animal killing he had to give the commandment "Thou Shalt not Kill"
Lord Buddha had the same problem, and preached against the Vedas with his Ahimsa, nonviolence. To stop the animal slaughter that they were doing at that time in the name of a Vedic sacrafice.
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cintune
climber
Penn's Woods
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Like Moses, for example. Slaughtering all those Canaanite men, women and children. What a kook!
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Mustang
climber
From the wild, not the ranch
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2008 - 09:11pm PT
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I once had the opportunity to have a small, private, 'tea' style lecture, and question answer period with Tibetan Monk, Dema Locho Rinpoche,(rin po shay), who is one of the 'instructors' or 'teachers' to his holinest, Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th dalai lama.
Someone asked the rinpoche if he ate meat and he said 'yes, I like the taste'. His instructions were, that it was okay if it helps the physical body maintain health, as long as the animal was treated with proper respect for its karmic significance as a food source, during its life and at slaughter. I suppose the Kosher tradition towards food, is somewhat along those lines.
Mega-slaughterhouses that feed the masses, later manifest as disease in humans when the animals are not treated properly.
The issue was raised for fish as well, as harvesting practices vary, if the fish was farm raised or wild caught, the karmic significance is, in how it provides sustenance and health for the material being.
We are at the top of the food chain for some reason.
Of course, he is an enlightened being.
WBraun and khanom, keeping it real. Thanks for the great posts and respectful discussion.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Just read Wandafuca's post...brilliant!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Let's say the world is something like the dream of some higher power. What would the evidence be, within that dream, that it is being dreamed? The only thing you have ever truly experienced is your own awareness.
One thing for sure, the world is illusory. Even according to science, there are a thousand unseen things all around us. Just where you are sitting, there are hundreds of radio, TV, and cell signals, gamma rays and other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum. Matter is actually so diffuse that it is possible (in a black hole for instance) for 10 Billion tons of it to fit in a matchbox. 500 years ago, people's main experience of electricity was lightning (proving that electricity is harmful and evil) Now we have a broader understanding of this mostly unseen energy.
I agree that anthropomorphizing the universe is a source of problems. The ultimate truth underlying reality that has manifested countless worlds and infinite space is certainly not a regular white-bearded dude who cringes when he hears bad language. I think it is quite good enough to be a good human being. If we pay attention, life teaches us many lessons. Disasters often teach us even faster. People don't have to climb rocks either. I climb to feel more alive, explore myself and my partners, enjoy adventure and love nature. I seek Truth for similar reasons, to play the game of observing and becoming more intimate with the secrets of life and existence.
Spirituality is for people who want either want to transcend or understand the pain and depression they experience, or for adventurers who find that seeking the ultimate mystery enriches their lives and makes for good retirement planning as well.
I have found great benefit from Jesus's teaching to love your enemies and not judge others. When I listen to much of Christian radio, I don't find those teachings explored very sincerely. It is human nature to embrace concepts, enjoy belonging to the best religion (or the best country) and not question your assumptions and habitual ways of being.
Whatever Truth is, it is not some external finger-wagger making you feel like a rebellious teenager. It is integral with your own existence. It is a part of you. You can't escape it, whether you choose to believe in it or look for it, or whatever.
I have observed that my life is a reflection of the totality of my attitudes, concepts, and history. When I change myself, my life changes. To understand yourself, to change your life, you might consider questioning or even abandoning the concepts you have about who you are and what you are, and, with an open mind, take a look at what is left when all your mental images of yourself are set aside. If you find a higher dimension of yourself and of the universe in the process, it is a revelation, not based on blind faith, but experience.
Considering that, I don't think it matters so much what you believe, except that concepts of religion, race, and country can create pain, or security, or some other feeling. But to experience the joy of an open heart, a clear mind, and a freedom from the weight of the past, knowing your own being, free from so much influence of culture and mental conditioning, can be enlightening. If you find the Power and Being underpinning our reality in the process, that's a big bonus.
Peace to All
Karl
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