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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Mar 12, 2007 - 05:34pm PT
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Last seen goin'n incognito in a'bago headed east!
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Mar 12, 2007 - 05:43pm PT
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Does anyone know of Patagonia's official statement on this issue or do you figure they will say nothing and hope the issue simply goes away? And I'm still curious about the ambassadors from other sports like surfing and so forth. It just seems so odd that the owner and founder, a climbier himself, would have let his own folks go--but I'm sure there are reasons and that's why I'd like to hear them.
JL
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Mar 12, 2007 - 05:59pm PT
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Sorry to hear about this. I think the program had merit, while I don't agree with some things some of the ambassadors have done. Maybe dealing with those on a "per ambassador" basis would have been better. Of course, we still don't know if this is all true or not, eh?
I also feel for the athletes. I don't know about all of them, but I do know, for certain, that a few of them make well into six figures. That's a lot of money for anyone to lose. It's tough for anyone to lose their job, regardless of how much they make.
The folks here trying to say that these atheletes aren't making decent money are only fooling themselves. Especially this comment - "If anything, clothing and maybe some travel costs is all you get in that business". Ummm... Yeah, right. There are definitely sponsored atheletes at a lower tier of the industry in this situation, but we're not talking about them here.
Ummm and while I'm picking on the above post... Pro-deals aren't about testing clothing or gear either. At all. Depending on what you refer to as a pro-deal, you're either getting, bascially, an employee cost on the gear or an even better deal on last year's gear (direct from the manufacturer). Different people refer to both programs as "pro-deals", which has become kinda the "catch-all" phrase for anyone getting any kind of discount on gear.
Testing is done by folks who climb hard, in addition to the athletes, in advance of the release of the product. Common sense says you don't sell prototype gear/clothing in a pro deal.
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pimp daddy wayne
Trad climber
[url=http://imageshack.us]http://img235.image
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Mar 12, 2007 - 08:35pm PT
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Anastasia
Trad climber
California
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Mar 12, 2007 - 08:37pm PT
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To say that we don't need sponsored climbers is saying that we don't want to promote our sport and keep it alive. To say that they don't really effect us is to say that climbing is not our passion. For me, just knowing that Lynn Hill freed the Nose has made me want to challenge all the limitations in my life. It has helped me open doors that were previously assumed unachievable. It is significant for I use many lessons I have learned from climbing in my life.
Also to say a climber doesn't need money to climb hard is silly. These days you are going to need sponsorship to afford just the basics of travel cost, entrance fees, lodging (even camping gets expensive) and food. Add that up and it is not for people with the limited budgets of yesterday. Just even entering a National Park is costly.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Mar 12, 2007 - 08:49pm PT
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Anastasia I think you are giving away all your power as a climber and as an indivdual if you think we really need "sponsored" climbers for climbing to live on.
For starters few climbers in the "golden age" of climbing had sponsorships. Some free gear here and there, a couple bucks here and there, but nobody got "paid to climb" as a full-time rock hero status job.
Secondly, climbing lives on every time I tell a story or rope up, not only when Sharma sends a new V14 or Dean solos a new roof crack. It's not a sport. Sports have arbitrary rules that can be objectively judged and there is a winner and loser. Climbing is ultimately a mode of travel.
Lastly, there are heaps of climbers doing things that would drop your jaw and NEVER get reported to magazines or posted on the Patagonia web site. They have jobs, they get by however they can and they climb hard and push the limits.
I'm not arguing that sponsorships shouldn't exist, but lets be honest...sponsorships are a MEANS OF ADVERTISING....they are not the foundation of our beloved pursuit. Arguing that we need sponsorships is to argue that we need to be advertised to.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Mar 12, 2007 - 08:59pm PT
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^^^
what he said!
(...unless anyone ever wants to sponsor me, in which case these and all other sponsorships are indespensible... bachar? i solo a mean 5.7 pal, come on... how about just free shoes for my adult life? i could post heaps of pics hear on stupitopo w/ me in your kicks!)
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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Mar 12, 2007 - 09:13pm PT
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good post highdesert.
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petey23
climber
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Mar 12, 2007 - 10:28pm PT
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gotta agree with highdesert or whatever....Anastasia, are you saying that Lynn Hill would not have freed the nose if she wasn't sponsored? Or that someone wouldn't have come along and done it later if THEY weren't sponsored? To suggest that all advancement in climbing (or any sport) is driven thanks to sponsorships is foolish.
A. Not all advancements are made by sponsored climbers.
B. Not all sponsored climbers' achievements/advancements of the sport are a result of being sponsored. Correlation does not imply causation, as they say.
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gw
Social climber
washington, dc
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Mar 12, 2007 - 10:40pm PT
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I disagree. This man would not have done such great things without sponsors.
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JAK
climber
The Souf
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Mar 12, 2007 - 11:43pm PT
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*gets lawnchair and popcorn*
Someone brought Reardon into it. Here we go...
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Chico
Trad climber
Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mar 13, 2007 - 12:27am PT
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gw,
I'm laughing over here. You don't think someone like Reardon would have been driven enough to solo like a ninja without sponsorship? I'm speechless dude(ette?).What planet do you live on? Sponsorship is just a perk. If you are going to be a soloist, you are going to do it, sponsored or not.
No, wait, you are probably right, without sponsorship he would have probably just delivered for Dominoes or something. Riiiiight...
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Mar 13, 2007 - 12:29am PT
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without sponsorship, he obviously would just be another holliwood producer of porn.
i am shocked at you all for not realizing that.....
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Mar 13, 2007 - 02:22am PT
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Doug Thompkins (North Face and later Esprix) was the original fat cat textile tycoon and meta oranginc Andy and everyone else has followed suit--from Patagonia to Robbins to who knows what else. It's not a bad model and it exploited the top achievers and all around coolios, seamlessly weaving them into the branding, which on the face of it was alway a grass roots kind of fandango but in fact was spun that way and orchestrated down to the last adverb per what was said and who said it.The result was a faux spontaneous wheat grass yubba dub concoxion of orgainc burgers and precious new age mottos declaring most anything that will vouchsafe their current stand as being the nee plus ultra of organic swank spiritual back room hand job tomfollery, all for the price of the 100 organic underware, surely a steel at twice the price. There's cult aspect to all of this jive, plain and simple, and always will be so long as tghere are high lamas posturing in the shadows who hold truth and bear it out here and there for the benefit of the young hackerswho are ten times a jhip and educated and dedicatied but don't yet have the millions that gives the cachet to all that fatulous rapping.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 13, 2007 - 02:28am PT
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nice largo...god damn.
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Mar 13, 2007 - 02:40am PT
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Ohh, Ma-a-a-a-n, Largo, that last run-on rant - misspellings, typos and all - was so completely accurate in its' depiction of Outdoor Retail faux reality, that I must take my hat off to you, brother. And may you undergo nicotine withdrawal on a regular basis, for the sake of us all.
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Degaine
climber
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Mar 13, 2007 - 05:32am PT
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Nice, Largo.
Yeah, it’s funny to see the baggy pants, I’m a badass mofo gansgsta’ or rapper styles so prevalent now in winter sports whether it be snowboarding or freestyle skiing. Even funnier when you see French or Swiss or Austrian teenagers wearing those clothes on the slopes in a place like Chamonix, so far removed from the prison culture (California prison culture?) and poor Californian inner cities from which those styles originated. They’re so “’core” as are the companies at trade shows selling that same “grass roots” “core” image at 450€ a pop for a pair of Gore-tex pants.
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Mar 13, 2007 - 09:44am PT
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"The result was a faux spontaneous wheat grass yubba dub concoction of organic burgers and precious new age mottos declaring most anything that will vouchsafe their current stand as being the nee plus ultra of organic swank spiritual back room hand job tomfoolery"
I just wanted to pay homage to a wonderful sentence.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Mar 13, 2007 - 09:45am PT
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A Crowley check your e-mail
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Mar 13, 2007 - 09:48am PT
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Nice one JL!
Seeing the interaction between Largo's words and the folks on the Taco always raises this visual for me of him on a stage in low light, dark glasses, smokey bar room atmosphere. Seated at the keyboard, he lays out a few riffs here and there while the patrons nod and tap their toes, with the occasional "yeah!" and "swing it Largo!" Miles Davis of the written word...
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