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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Steve,
That was an awesome post. Thx mucho. That took a lot of cojones. Props to you man.
Mal
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lucasignorelli
climber
Torino, Italy
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Neil's statement above speaks eloquently to the matter. The compressor route was installed by a failed, lying climber, so the question for the climbing community really is, "Is it better to leave the route standing as a monument poor alpine form or remove it to reveal the original beauty of one of the best and least attainable alpine summits on the planet?
Knowing very well that I'm not going to convince anyone, and that someone, somewhere will violently disagree against anything I choose to write on this point - still my conscience makes me feel obliged to write this:
I would really, but REALLY be careful before to call Cesare Maestri a "failed, lying climbed". It was never ever the former, and there's no real, hard evidence of him being the latter (just many serious suspicions). His motives for putting the Compressor Route were extremely debatable (probably he did it just out of monumental spite against the Torre), but this doesn't make him any better than many continental climbers of his age, whose main difference from Cesare, one of the greatest Dolomite climbers of the 50's and early 60's were:
a) better lawyers
b) better manners in handling media connections
c) less controversial opinions on politics and religion
(anyone here from Italy or acquainted with Italy's climbing history knows well what I'm talking about)
As for the Compressor Route, well, I've never been even close to climb it, but having spoken with few people that did early repeat of it (including Jim Bridwell - who may remember me as one of the guys he met during one of his many Italian trips), they didn't exactly define it "a via ferrata". But again, I know nothing about Cerro Torre, so I've no real opinion on this.
Luca Signorelli
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slobmonster
Trad climber
berkeley, ca
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NB: I have not been to Argentine Patagonia, and any of my numerous climbing partners will tell you that I am a whiny pus*y with scant talent.
That said, I know Kelly personally, having climbed numerous pitches with him over the years. Though his sense of humor and irony is grand, he is not one to embellish *anything* when the cards are on the table. I trust what he says as gospel, pretty much.
I also know Bean a bit, having backed him up in an almost-fight many years ago in the Creek. I can imagine his temper to get the better of him, but not without significant provocation. Given Steve's gratuitously humble apology (above, 3X) for his "wobbler," I don't see Bean's *really* *minor* *physical* intimidation to be that big a deal. I've seen more bar fights go down with way worse consequences.
And the bolts? Looks like Cerro Torre is just a microcosm of North Conway, New Hampshire.
-Seth Green
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Wow, there's a novel.
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Anastasia
Trad climber
California
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Snooky wrote: "Sounds like Bachar syndrome again."
I am very tired of you, Snooky. You have proven yourself to be lacking.
Anastasia
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Far as I can tell, all concerned in this affair are beginning to look pretty stand-up to me. Steve's account is a model for taking responsibility.
Best to all involved.
-Jeff Lowe
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Brian
climber
Cali
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Glad to hear that some of the mess seems to have blown over. Hopefully everyone will be able to patch up...
Regarding one of the initial issues... Props to Josh (who I’ve met briefly) and Zack (who I've never met); however, I hope that the idea of chopping the bolts has been abandoned, at least by these two.
It would be very, very lame to "take the easy way out" (Josh's words) and go for the summit using bolts that you later chop (next season, the season after, whatever). If the summit experience is important and special enough that they can make an exception for themselves (i.e., its OK for us to clip the headwall bolts because we did some rad climbing below and, heck, we were trying to avoid the bolts... but the weather is dicey and we really don't want to go home without the summit when we are so close...). If you use the bolts to get you to the summit, it would be pretty hypocritical to return at a later date to chop them.
I have no idea if it is true, but THANK GOD no one involved did anything as heinous and stupid as simply clipping/cutting the bolt hangers. The only thing worse than an unnecessary bolt is an unnecessary bolt smashed or defaced without being removed.
Again, I'm psyhed that Josh and Zach summited, or whatever with the whole mushroom, and I wish them continued success. I for one am inspired by reading about such super-alpinists, despite being stuck firmly in what a post above called the advanced-intermediate stage of international alpinism.
With respect to Kelly's post above: he is right in one sense. If a person threatens violence he or she should be prepared for violence. I've been through plenty of smackdowns (and on both ends of the smacking). However, I would still throw in a note of disapproval. When climbers come to blows about what amounts to a (very heated) argument about climbing ethics, I think that is unfortunate. I guess Bean was sticking up for a friend, which is cool; but there was no immediate threat to his friend, so his hot-headedness is as bad as all the others'.
Again, I hope everyone can patch things up. Glad to hear all are safe.
Brian
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Steve Long
Social climber
UK
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What a lovely juicy thread! Personally I loved "Little Cotton-er's" diction and thought it totally appropriate for exciting gossip.
Since I've stood on top of the mushroom in question I feel I've earned the right to chip in with some observations.
You can't erase history. If you chop all the bolts then you're going to destroy a whole season for a bunch of Cerro Torre "via Ferrata" suitors. (Incidentally, I didn't see many 5.4 climbers up there myself!) All you people claiming that the use of Maestri's bolts to make progress makes it a non-ascent should reflect about the descent. I don't think many people have got back off the hill without using a bolt or two of Maestri's!
I'm full of admiration for the people who have climbed Cerro Torre by other routes, but I don't believe that the existence of the Compressor Route detracts from their achievements really. Hey, you can walk up el Capitan, but that doesn't make Reticent (who, me?) Wall any easier. Unless of course they climb one line, then rap down the convenient Compressor Route and then claim that using the bolts on the way down is somehow ok, but not for the journey up.
I had a lovely time on the Compressor Route, it was the centre piece for one of the best holidays of my life: people can call it a non-route all they like but I can tell you it feels pretty good to stand on that summit. And if you want a great climb without getting upset about Maestri's bolts, how about repeating the Slovenians' Devils' Dihedral and then forging a new line up the headwall? Wouldn't that be a more beautiful statement than chipping away again at poor old Maestri?
Oh and by the way, we Brits tend to join the moral highground because Maestri stole the line after "we" tried previously to climb it without bolts. But why did the British team descend to get a supply of bolting kit? Perhaps its just as well that bad weather stopped play...
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darod
Trad climber
South Side Billburg
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Just the "idea" of chopping those bolts makes me think that those boys are way over their heads, really thinking they're some kind of crusaders for the pure, and completely disregarding the local's opinion (since they didn't even consult with them, or anybody). I don't care if you climb 5.13X and put up amazing routes all over the world, that's just arrogance and ego and I'd be very careful if I was them, the mountain has more than a few ways (not very pleasant ones) to teach us humility.
The whole cowboy showdown was pretty lame and embarrasing to all the involved, but I have to appreciate Steve's cojones to try to stop the madness.
darod.
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elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
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Blah blah blah bl-frickin'-ah.
I'm happy all the vagititis has died down, but the point remains that two "humble" guys wanted to take it on themselves without consulting the community to erase part of mountaineering history.
And a third party who was not threatened with anything, became physically violent, and escalated a situation he was not part of.
So this is what the brotherhood of climbers has now come to accept? Elitism, hubris and violence?
Josh and Zack may be nice guys, but this was a Potter level asswipe move.
I am at a loss to come up with a word to express my disgust for the complacent acceptance of unacceptable behavior and thoughtless actions of vandals and thugs.
Weak...
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I am reminded of when Ronald Reagan said "Well, boys will be boys!"
It strikes me that if people were up front with their intentions and willing to listen to others much of this may have never happened.
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snooky
climber
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Elcapfool is right vandals suck, like I said before this is pure Bachar syndrome.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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snooky: "Elcapfool is right vandals suck, like I said before this is pure Bachar syndrome."
Please tell us exactly what you mean by that. If it is meant critically, tell us why. Facts. Not innuendo, not gossip. Facts. And, if you're being critical of John by name, you should provide your own name. It may help us determine whether you're saying anything we should listen to.
It is interesting that you use the adjective "pure" in conjunction with "Bachar". None of us is a saint, and we all stumble at times. But John certainly stands for purity in climbing, and style of climbing. One of the great rock climbers of the 20th, and into the 21st century. And benefactor of innumerable climbers, e.g. through the routes he's created, and his promotion of the sticky shoe revolution. He's never been afraid to publicly stand up for the values he believes in as a climber. Is all this what you mean by Bachar syndrome?
Anders
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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If there is a syndrome for vandalizing the creations of others why on earth should John's name preface it?
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Hats off to Steve for his account.
I have two issues with thi story. From what I read, Alpinist says they summitted. But the guys who were there said they did not. Am I the only one who sees a problem here? Where is the honesty in reporting?
Secondly, is it alright for hardmen to chop old routes they disagree with?
Seems pretty assinine to me that the modern day hardman is now contemplating chopping a route done what nearly 4 decades ago? Now with modern gear, modern techniques, topo's of the route, and a modern attitude developed through following in others footsteps, these hardmen show their disdain by attempting to chop the route.
Sorry, I dont buy it. These guys climbing resumes are as impressive as they come. However, if you want to really show how much more superior than Maestri you guys are, then you should use the same equipment and techniques available to Maestri at the time. Forget about your topo and goretex, forget about modern gear, go send it wihout. Then perhaps you have a leg to stand on.
As it is, it would apear to be a very ego driven plan foiled by weather and Maestri's well placed bolts. You guys want to chop, think about what it was like for Maestri with the equipment he had back then. And the knowledge that nobody had climbed it before.
Maestri Route in Red rom the Alpinist Website.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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This is cyberspace wes. Perhaps you could just explain yourself.
Why should John's name preface such a "syndrome"? Vigilantees are ubiquitous. It actually seems like most of them are wannabes who secretly envy those who have made a name for themselves climbing and, unable to do so themselves, seek to tear down the efforts of others.
Very few vigilante efforts I recall were by "name" climbers as the fallout tends to snowball.
As this thread about an "attempt" that didn't even come to be demonstrates.
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Mick Ryan
Trad climber
Kendal, English Lake District
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No Wes I don't think it was...
I do know who shot those things off though.
Great Eastside climbinglore!
Mick
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Hah!
So it was BS from the getgo.
Is it any surprise we see these little brou-ha-has?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Haven't stood at the base to know, but from the pics I've seen over the years it looks like there is plenty of stone left for separate FAs, as opposed to screwing around with the Compressor which doesn't even look like the most interesting line on it beyond its tainted history. I'm normally a "chop-chop" sort of guy, but it would seem chopping a line as historically notable as Maestri's epic misadventure would call for an international symposium in the nearest town where, like civilized men, drinks could be exchanged at the bar after all the fights over the proposed action were over.
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lucasignorelli
climber
Torino, Italy
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On the other hand trying to erase a line, that it is now obvious was created by a liar
Well, no, it's not obvious at all - again, I would like to see someone keeping a more level headed attitude towards Maestri's history. People should really try to be a bit more informed before jumping to conclusion, especially if the honour of one of Europe best rock climber is at stake ("honour at stake" - sound very old fashioned, isn't it?)
Luca Signorelli
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