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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
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Wilber! Per your mention:
Oh I forgot,old white men.
Or, as Heidi & I refer to them: BOWs!
Bitter Old Whites.
The base of the Trumpian party.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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As shown above Fritz.
Lol
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Generic Fallback Position.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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No, Edward....I just don't get it. Investigations & the FBI are bad if they aren't in the interests of Republicans (i.e. Kavanaugh, Trump), but they are good if they are in their interests (i.e. Hillary's emails, the Clintons in general).
Yet another example: McConnell has vowed to investigate Feinstein's involvement with Ford's allegation. No doubt, this is to create lots of noise to distract from the Republican Senate's ongoing efforts to appoint lifetime judges and such. I'm assuming you'll be in support of such an investigation, yes?
And if post-election House Democrats decide to continue investigations into Kavanaugh, and Trump's 2016 election dealings, that will be bad, right?
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Trump
climber
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I just don’t get it
I’m with you there. There’s a lot of that going around.
Investigations & the FBI are bad if they aren’t in the interests of Republicans
The Republicans tasked the FBI with doing an investigation into the allegations of sexual assault against Kavanaugh.
The FBI, itself, the real deal, the FBI, they did it - they conducted an investigation into the sexual assault allegations against Kavanaugh. Really, they did.
The reason they did so was because three Republicans insisted they do it before they would vote on Kavanaugh’s confirmation. They didn’t do it in response to Democrats insisting that they do it - they did it because Republicans insisted that they do it.
And sure, the FBI investigation that the FBI conducted was a sham. There’s a lot of that going around lately too.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Trump has non-stop slandered the FBI regarding the Mueller investigation but has all sorts of confidence in the bureau and quickly orders the FBI to investigate Kavanaugh and his accusers and after a few days finds kavanaugh clean as a whistle...something doesn't add up here...be interesting to see what happened with the investigation findings...
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Both of you (ET & blah) are speculating that Kavanaugh was not involved in either incident. No-one knows (and we may never know) for sure, but the point is that it's a high-stakes position, and allegations deserved a reasonable investigation. Three days...involving only 9 sources out of list of closer to 50...with the scope limited by the WH....this was not sufficient.
Flip it around, guys. If these were the conditions under which Hillary's emails were investigated...with Obama limiting access to certain sources...with a critical mid-term election barreling forward...Republicans would have a sh#t-fit about it.
I'm not in the camp of concluding Kavanaugh was guilty of any of this, but it deserved better investigation than it received. And to believe that it was short-shrifted for any other reason than the impending election is just plain naive &/or politically blind
Apogee, for what little it's worth, I mostly agree with you. I would have preferred a more robust investigation.
On the other hand, it seems unlikely that further investigation would have revealed anything (I agree with Edward on that point). The only plausible evidence would have been other people's testimony. And if anyone involved would have wanted to say anything derogatory to Kav, they could have / would have. So the lack of a more thorough investigation was likely immaterial.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"On the other hand, it seems unlikely that further investigation would have revealed anything (I agree with Edward on that point). "
Not immaterial at all. This is about the integrity of the judicial branch of our government, and how it is perceived by citizens. A reasonably thorough investigation (more than three days, and involving a reasonable spectrum of sources, w/o the influence of a WH that has a vested interest in a judge like this) that brought no more corroborating evidence would have instilled more confidence in people. As it was played, it just looks shoddy and politically driven. It easily leaves the door open to further investigations, and de-legitimizes Kavanaugh's confirmation, if not the SCOTUS as a whole.
Of course, time was McConnell's enemy in all of this- it had to be wrapped up asap to become the political asset he needed for the Republican Senate.
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Trump
climber
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What would a White House that didn’t have a vested interest in a judge look like?
Obama didn’t have a vested interest in getting a judge like Garland approved, rather than a judge like Gorsuch approved?
All presidents and all administrations have a vested interest in furthering their objectives. That’s what they do. That’s why people vote for them to do the things they do.
So we didn’t get as robust an investigation as we’d like to have gotten.
Still though, we got an investigation. That’s good right?
It’s good that the Republicans ordered an FBI investigation into Kavanaugh, but it would have been better if it had been a more robust investigation?
I’m not seeing that. I’m just seeing the “it would have been better if it had been a more robust investigation” part, I expect because that’s the only part that fits our partisan narrative.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Trump, do you really think the Republicans would have agreed to a thorough investigation of the allegations that would require weeks (if not months) to complete, and could unearth elements that would not be flattering to Kavanaugh...an investigation that could easily become a liability to retaining the Senate?
Of course not. It was far more logical to 'agree' to an investigation that would be limited in scope and time, so that the Senators on the fence (esp. Flake, Collins, Manchin and maybe Murkowski) would have something to point to saying that 'due diligence' was done. It's really difficult to be more transparent in the motivations involved here.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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And sadly true.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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A reasonably thorough investigation (more than three days, and involving a reasonable spectrum of sources, w/o the influence of a WH that has a vested interest in a judge like this) that brought no more corroborating evidence would have instilled more confidence in people.
What else was there to investigate?
One person's recollection from 36 years ago. Full of holes. None of the supposed witnesses backed her story.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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They are counting on that ,there.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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On the other hand, it seems unlikely that further investigation would have revealed anything (I agree with Edward on that point). The only plausible evidence would have been other people's testimony. And if anyone involved would have wanted to say anything derogatory to Kav, they could have / would have. So the lack of a more thorough investigation was likely immaterial. What a load of BS from someone trying really hard to sound knowledgeable about the subject. Testimony IS evidence. In fact, it's often the bulk of the evidence in any case. You seem to believe that since someone could say anything they want, they would. That is not always true. Often it's not. That is why you interview multiple witnesses, to see if their stories corroborate one another's. Also, if you claim that the accuser could "say anything", then you have to admit that Kavanaugh could as well. While it is certainly possible that a further investigation may not have disclosed anything substantive, one never knows until one looks. The fact that they didn't bother suggests they were afraid of what they might find.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Look,they do not care what kind of person their president is ,why would they care what kind of person their judge is going to be.
As long as their conservative agenda is pushed forward ,despite the majorities wishes.
Have to vote them out.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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It's all about timing...Mitch McCornhole and Trump need Kavanugh on the court in case Trump gets indicted...Then Kavanugh and his partisan colleagues will rule that a standing president can't be held accountable for his crimes ...
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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frostback
Oct 9, 2018 - 07:22am PT
Looks like Eddie and the ST right wingers made this vid
Hell Yeah!
That's why I posted it, last week.
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