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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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Dec 30, 2017 - 02:58pm PT
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Chipper-shredder-copy-paste:
Do you have your own arguments? Can you answer my questions?
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unlocked gait
Gym climber
the range
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Dec 30, 2017 - 03:08pm PT
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just cufkin call me weege.
johnny. we've known each other
for so long.
though mary may have f*#ked a donkey,
i wouldn't be surprised how sick
that f*#king religion is,
i think jesus was purebread human.
at least that was the role i attempted to portray.
i just fakein laid there in the hay and drooled a bit
pissed myself, you known, normal shite for me.
it was easy wage.
a few hotties lent down to my level and i looked right down there shirts.
cause i adore the female phsique. and i also absolutely respect their grace and intellect.
please, again. call me weege
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Dec 30, 2017 - 03:15pm PT
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And, it is also a huge mistake to tell them they can live the American dream. I think the American dream needs to be redefined.
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chipper_shredder
Social climber
outinthecuts
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2017 - 03:55pm PT
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Income Inequality in America
Causes of Income Inequality
By Kimberly Amadeo - August 25, 2017
One-quarter of American workers makes less than $10 per hour. That creates an income below the federal poverty level. These are the people who wait on you every day. They include cashiers, fast food workers and nurse's aides. Or maybe they are you.
In 2012, the top 10 percent of earners took home 50 percent of all income. That's the highest percent in the last 100 years. The top 1 percent took home 20 percent of the income, according to a study by economists Emmanuel Saez and Thomas Piketty.
(Source: "The Rich Get Richer Through the Recovery," The New York Times, September 10, 2013.)
Income Inequality Facts
From 2000 through 2006, the number of Americans living in poverty increased 15 percent. By 2006, nearly 33 million workers earned less than $10 per hour. Their annual income is less than $20,614. This is below the poverty level for a family of four. Most of these low-wage workers receive no health insurance, sick days or pension plans from their employers. That means they can't get sick and have no hope of retiring.
During this same time period, average wages remained flat. That’s despite an increase of worker productivity of 15 percent. Corporate profits increased 13 percent per year. (Source: The Big Squeeze, Steven Greenhouse, pp.6-9.)
Between 1979 and 2007, household income increased 275 percent for the richest 1 percent of households. It rose 65 percent for the top fifth.
The bottom fifth only increased 18 percent. That's true even after "wealth redistribution." In other words, subtracting all taxes, and adding all income from Social Security, welfare and other payments.
Since the rich got richer faster, their piece of the pie grew larger. The richest 1 percent increased their share of total income by 10 percent.
Everyone else saw their piece of the pie shrink by 1-2 percent. In other words, even though the income going to the poor improved, they fell further behind when compared to the richest. (Source: “Trends In The Distribution Of Household Income, 1979-2007,” Congressional Budget Office, May 17, 2012.)
Who or What Is to Blame?
Income inequality is blamed on cheap labor in China, unfair exchange rates and jobs outsourcing. Corporations are often blamed for putting profits ahead of workers. But they must to remain competitive. U.S. companies must compete with lower-priced Chinese and Indian companies who pay their workers much less. As a result, many companies have outsourced their high-tech and manufacturing jobs overseas. The U.S. has lost 20 percent of its factory jobs since 2000. These were traditionally higher-paying union jobs. Service jobs have increased, but these are much lower paid.
During the 1990s, companies went public to gain more funds to invest in growth. Managers must now produce ever-larger profits to please stockholders. For most companies, payroll is the largest budget line item. Reengineering has led to doing more with fewer full-time employees. It also means hiring more contract and temporary employees.
Immigrants, many in the country illegally, fill more low-paid service positions. They have less bargaining power to demand higher wages.
Wal-Mart is the nation's largest employer, at 1.4 million. Unfortunately, it has set new standards in reducing employee pay and benefits. Its competitors must follow suit to provide the same "Low Prices."
Recent government tax policies have helped investors more than low wage earners. Deregulation means less stringent investigations into labor disputes.
The U.S. minimum wage remained at $5.15 an hour until 2007. Ten years later, it’s only risen to $7 an hour. (Source: The Big Squeeze, Steven Greenhouse, pp. 12-14.)
Technology also increases inequality. It has also replaced many workers at factory jobs. Those who have training in technology can get higher paid jobs.
In recent years, the Federal Reserve deserves some of the blame. Record-low interest rates were supposed to spur the housing market, making homes more affordable. While that is the case, housing prices have leveled off in recent years. The average American still doesn't have enough income to buy a home. This is especially true for younger people who typically form new households. Without good jobs, they're stuck living at home or with roommates.
By keeping Treasury rates low, the Fed created an asset bubble in stocks. This helps the top 10 percent, who now own 91 percent of the wealth in stocks and bonds. Other investors have been buying commodities, driving food prices up 40 percent since 2009. This hurts the "bottom" 90 percent, who spend a greater percentage of their income on food. (Source: "Liberals Love the 1 Percent," The Wall Street Journal, July 30, 2014.)
Take A Global Perspective
Many of the causes of U.S. income inequality can be traced to an underlying shift in the global economy. Emerging markets incomes are increasing. Countries such as China, Brazil and India, are becoming more competitive in the global marketplace. That's because their work forces are becoming more skilled. Also their leaders are becoming more sophisticated in managing their economies. As a result, wealth is shifting to them from the United States and other developed countries.
This shift is about lessening a global income inequality.
The richest 1 percent of the world's population has 40 percent of its wealth. Americans hold 25 percent of that wealth. But China has 22 percent of the world's population and 8.8 percent of its wealth. India has 15 percent of its population and 4 percent of its wealth. (Source: "Estimating the Level and Distribution of Global Household Wealth," World Institute for Development Economic Research, November 2007.)
As other countries become more developed, their wealth rises. They are taking it away from the United States, the EU and Japan. In America, the least wealthy bear the brunt.
What Is the Solution?
Trying to prevent U.S. companies from outsourcing will not work. It is punishing them for responding to a global redistribution of wealth. Neither will protectionist trade policies or walls to prevent immigrants from entering illegally.
The United States must accept that a global wealth redistribution is occurring. Those in the top fifth of the U.S. income bracket must realize that those in the bottom two-fifths cannot bear the brunt forever. The government should provide the bottom two-fifths access to education and employment training. It can raise taxes on the top fifth to pay for it. It should make these changes now so that the transition is gradual and healthy for the economy overall.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Dec 30, 2017 - 05:28pm PT
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World economics have changed. The powerhouse nature of the US really took off after WW2 due to the population, resources, and intact manufacturing infrastructure. There was no effective competition in the world. What is left now is the continuation and residual of that effect.
The rest of the world is catching up.
It is also a myth that the US can afford the huge military cost and still keep taxes low.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Dec 30, 2017 - 08:06pm PT
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Awesome posts by chipper_shredder that explain how modern Americons are ripping off everyone else.
And if you think those posts are wordy, entire books have been written explaining more about "Recent government tax policies have helped investors more than low wage earners."
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Dec 30, 2017 - 09:30pm PT
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The government should provide the bottom two-fifths access to education and employment training. BS - we lead the planet in providing opportunity for education and training. Absolutely anyone can partake - but the bottom 2/5 are generally losers who are too dumb, lazy and entitled to take advantage of it. Idiocracy - this pool is expanding at a faster rate than the upper 2/5.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Dec 30, 2017 - 10:53pm PT
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Capitalism is the worst of economic systems, bar none other that have been tried. Capitalism's legacy will be massive environmental destruction on a major scale.
Dumbest quote I've yet seen here during my short visit. Not an easy task, RobertL, on-line MA wannabe. Do you really think environment PRC or environment USSR or environment DPRK or environment Iran or myriad "other systems that have been tried"--economic or political--have been any kinder to the Earth? You need to get out of mom's basement and see a few things, amigo. In fact, environmental concerns and public input are completely absent in these systems--and their environmental legacies are absolutely horrific. (Not to mention legacies absent human freedom and dignity for which you care little.)
Capitalism has, in fact, lifted more people out of poverty than any economic system that has ever been tried. Both Reilly and I have posted mainstream links here repeatedly. Your refusal to read doesn't change facts. I won't bother re-posting; your belief system appears immutable.
You, sir, are a bonafide idiot among idiots here. No small mountain, that. Congrats.
PS, spare me the current revisionist soft academia nonsense claiming the USSR was simply practicing "state capitalism" and not true Marxist tenets. We won't get fooled again.
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Dec 31, 2017 - 05:45am PT
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JLP wrote: "the bottom [40%] are generally losers who are too dumb, lazy and entitled to take advantage of it"
as of 2015 the bottom 40% of u.s. households made under $43511.
so just a heads up that if you are in this group, at least according to JLP, you are generally a dumb, lazy, and entitled loser.
this would be kind of a one off funny, if it wasn't such a commonly held and frankly sociopathic belief.
and one that drives the amway style, multi-level-marketing fleecing that generally occurs.
and no this fleecing isn't happening due to business owners, the 1%, or even the 0.1%.
it's primarily about the 0.01% who now have [as of 2012] ~12% of the wealth, directly due to the bottom 50% taking home about 12.5% of the u.s. annual income.
and so no this convo isn't generally about "marxism" either. it's about the sustainability of a system where the folks that do the buying of the shIt that drives the whole economy, aren't getting a historically sustainable portion of the pie.
oh well, given the trumpist budget it shouldn't be too long until at least americans, and subsequently a good chunk of the western world, are going to get to relearn truths that should have been learned at least during the great depression, if not thanks to henry ford before that: while some income inequality arguably acts as reward and incentive, it is inarguable that at a certain point, almost everybody gets fUcked as the engine of production [purchasing] is shut down...
and yet despite history we've got JLP and his fellow sociopaths stating/believing that the bottom 40% are generally dumb, lazy, and entitled...
not sure if enough of the ayn randian john galt wannabes are going to come to their senses and realize that by definition capitalism needs both a healthy "middle" and "lower'" income "class" to reach more of its potential or if they really are going to keep shooting for an elysium styled dystopia.
interesting line the u.s. seems to enjoy perpetually walking.
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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Dec 31, 2017 - 08:32am PT
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"Awesome posts by chipper_shredder that explain how modern Americons are ripping off everyone else. "
No, they aren't. They are plagiarism. Until he can answer simple questions with thoughts of his own, he's just copying others.
Lame.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Dec 31, 2017 - 08:53am PT
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Lollie's link on Sweden is interesting.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/01/why-sweden-beats-most-other-countries-at-just-about-everything
By Sweden "beating most other countries at just about everything", the ease of doing business is a preeminent condition.
The first two reasons cited for Sweden's business success are deregulation and budget self restraint with cuts to the welfare state (Imagine that).
Other factors cited:
High employment rate, gender equality, low levels of corruption, education, and quality of life for the elderly.
I believe most of these factors are rooted in culture, and Sweden has an advantage in being a homogeneous culture.
In fact, in innovation, corruption, and reputation, the top countries rated are very homogeneous.
Whether it's correlation or cause, I'm as little qualified to say as most here.
I once read that a well known economist was asked why Sweden's poverty rate was so much lower than that in the US.
His reply was to ask what the poverty rate of Swedish descendants in Minnesota was.
Edited Disclaimer. My father's parents immigrated from Sweden as children 120 years ago, so my prejudices are on the table with Lollie's ;-)
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Dec 31, 2017 - 09:03am PT
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We are no longer homogenous, a tenth is immigrants, but yes, it's true anyway. We were when this culture was founded. The welfare downsizing started from a very high level, like nowadays you have to pay almost 20 dollars for medical care per visit, until you payed 250 dollars. Then it's free for the rest of a year. (The real cost is covered by taxes.)
We're also very very proud of the low corruption level, it has its roots in the 1600-hundred's civil servant tradition.
Business is everything, the source of wellbeing - and when people earn a lot, they spend a lot.
Do you happen to know the answer to that last question? How it's among Swedish immigrants in Minnesota?
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Dec 31, 2017 - 09:11am PT
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Hey Lollie,
Thanks for the reply. I do not know the answer to the question, but I am assuming it was a rhetorical question on Swedish descendants in Minnesota.
An aside on language: German friends have told me that movie theaters they have gone to in Sweden don't use Swedish subtitles anymore, they just show them in English.
This country (America), really is pathetic in it's language skills, showing that more Americans need to get out and about a little bit more.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Dec 31, 2017 - 09:22am PT
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I haven't noticed! Subtitles, I mean. Doesn't surprise me though, I don't read the subtitles anyway, if there are.
Films for small kids are usually dubbed, like Disney's.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Dec 31, 2017 - 11:13am PT
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I don't think the weather is part of the ranking otherwise Canada would never rise above #10 or 15. Maybe the quality of ice climbing is part of the ranking
Calgary was -30C earlier this Am, colder than Inuvik
What happened to the 32 hour work week? It went the way of the paperless office
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Dec 31, 2017 - 11:45am PT
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Yer thinking is old, and will be judged by the grand kids you hope will one-day fund yer retirement through paying your expectations for housing and stock, all while you ask them to wipe yer butt when you are too frail in your hoped-for dignified decline. You will die having probably consumed and generated waste for the planet to manage, in quantities far exceeding the positives you have contributed. The Capitalist system you enjoy has enabled that.
Like most red greens, a lot of time spent lecturing in the second and third person--and not a mirror in the house. No doubt you and Gary will have the stature that capitalism has denied you in this brave new world you envision. (After the rest of us starve to death, of course.)
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Dec 31, 2017 - 12:51pm PT
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I spent many years self employed. It was a nightmare. Government regulations and self employment taxes made it almost impossible to be competitive. Big corporations pay capital gains at a low rate as owners use stock trading to capture their profits at about 15% tax. Meanwhile, self employed pay nearly 50% if they live in California and follow the rules. We simply cant compete. Just see what happens if you want to set up a hotdog cart in your local neighborhood. Government fees for development have driven all small developers and owner builders out. Housing in ElDorado county is scarce because the county charges $125,000 in fees to build a two bedroom house. As such, no homes under $500,000 are built because it takes that much to make enough profit to offset the fees. The county supervisors pay themselves $500,000 a year but they do not serve the people. They use their positions to manipulate real estate deals in their own portfolios. When asked about low income housing, the official statement of those county supes was that they prefer wealthy people live in their county because they pay more in taxes....Companies like Polaroid declare bankruptcy and screw their employees out of their pensions. Then the company reorganizes and hundreds of millions appeared out of nowhere. Five execs split the money and ran. All of this is illegal, but the US congress oversaw that bankruptcy (strategic default) and were active conspirators in the rip off, just like when Hurwirz used company pensions to take over Pacific Lumber. He owes $5,000,000,000 to the govt for interest on junkbond debt and defaults. But congress hasnt received one cent to pay for his default. Powerful congresspeople like Feinstein are protecting him. Solyndra paid its execs almost $2,000,000,000 in tax dollars instead of building a solar panel factory. They tried to cover their tracks by buying Chinese panels and putting their own labels on them so that they could pretend they were making them at their "factory." They duped the taxpayers and got rich. Thanks Obama and Harry Reid. The federal government bans mining by US held corporations then gives permission to Swedish and Canadian companies to mine OUR RESOURCES on those same lands that Feinstein claimed she was "saving for future generations." The bribe money is laundered through Panama and United Bank of Switzerland. Our taxpayer funded intellectual property is illegally exported to other Nations, including North Korea et al by crooked University agencies, who collect their royalties in foreign banks while America gets fleeced. How much longer can America survive this economic exploitation and bloodletting? The answer is we are already dead, the victims of what Harvard economists call "government capture." Once enough corruption exists in government, it cannot be reclaimed by just power of the people. The US, State and especially local governments have become totally corrupt. See City of Bell. They are just the ones who got caught. This shiht is happening in local jurisdictions EVERYWHERE. I used to think that Timothy Leary was just a druggie crackpot. But his most famous quote has become quite relevant once again. "Tune in, turn on, DROP OUT!" Stop buying crap at wallmart. Barter. Dont pay your taxes if you have nothing to loose. Grow your own, learn to hunt. Buy guns. Save Gold and guns and seeds. The collapse of the world economic model and conspiracy is upon us. Why do you think so many people voted for Trump? They are fed up. Regardless of what he represents in truth or not, his presidency is a symbol that people are tired of getting ripped off in the NAME of freedom. Ghandi spoke about why it was wrong for Indias poor to support rich lawers and politicians in Dehli because they only saught power in the NAME of freedom, when actually all they wanted was wealth and power. That is what the politicos are selling right now. "Equal rights, immigration, racial equality, gender equality etc." Those are all noble causes. But the people who claim to represent those causes are using the people they claim to represent to get money and power. They dont give a damn about you! Just look into the private lives of Anthony Weiner and Bill Clinton and you can see what these liberal champions are really about. Trump may be just as bad. We shall see. If the current trend is not reversed now, China and Russia will split us down the middle and we will be their conquest of the 21st century....wanna be a forced organ donor for some elite member of Chinas government? Thats what they do to pro democracy advocates......
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Dec 31, 2017 - 01:58pm PT
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^ ^ ^ ^ ^
This is what we call a Wall Of Text (WOT).
In a forum like this, in order to enhance the readability and thereby the readership of a post, you should break your writing into more paragraph-like-chunks (plc) than you might normally do in the usual letter or essay.
Otherwise you create a TWOT*.
*TotalWasteOfTime
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