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c wilmot
climber
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It can be argued that math and science are precisely to blame for climate change. Had we stayed an agrarian society instead of becoming an industrial one our carbon footprint would not be nearly as bad. More so the people engineering our increasingly automated society are the ones creating more climate change while reaping the profits From the waste and pollution produced as a result. They are also usually living lavish lifestyles well beyond what is necessary. Do these people really care about climate change? Perhaps the peasant masses don't bow down because people with power like Bono who preach the most are often the worst offenders. Not to mention that power and success are not a measure of value as a human. And what your "better" than someone else at can quickly become inconsequential. As Many egostistical athletes find out when their superiority is lost to injury
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John M
climber
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Fear of knowledge is a deeply anchored foundation of faith-based religions
maybe in some churches, but not in any of the churches that I belonged to. I grew up in the Baptist church. And my family reached out to people of many different faiths. we had all kinds of scientists visiting and staying with us. My father worked for aero Jet test firing rocket engines.
There is a movement in the fundamentalist church that interprets the bible literally. Its these people who have trouble with science. But to say that all faith based religions have a fear of knowledge is ignorant.
Edit: Moose.. not trolling, but I do see your point about the telescopes not tracking. I was genuinely interested in why the Inuit would say that the Sun is setting in a different place then it had for years. They live outdoors. They don't use electronics. They depend on their observations of nature.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Moosie, there are different ways of seeing. I 'saw' for the first time in an Inuit 'sweat' lodge. ;-)
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Those interested should also read Bronislaw Malinowski's Magic Science and Religion, 1948. He says that no society, no matter how primitive, practices magic, science and religion.
Science is learning that water helps plants grow and cooking improves food. Observable and useful. A person can intervene on their own part.
Magic is trying to influence the course of nature that is not understood by science. Magic is usually some sort of rites and rituals. A person typically asks somebody else, a shaman perhaps, to intervene on their part.
Religion is an effort to control things so abstract that we don't really understand what it is such as the afterlife. We ask some imagined higher power to intervene on our behalf.
As science advances, the need for magic and religion declines. Sadly, most religion is static and resists this advance of civilization. Most of our population has difficulty accepting advances in science that are inconvenient while heartily accepting the conveniences.
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WBraun
climber
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Banquo -- "We ask some imagined higher power to intervene on our behalf."
Another absolute made by the very same person who claims there are no absolutes.
Hypocrisy and scientism ....... again .....
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Hey without science we would not have nylon ropes
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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What could be more appropriate for dirtbags?
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WBraun
climber
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without science
Yes
Without science, there wouldn't be anything at all just about.
Thus science is absolute and is also absolutely required for knowledge.
The modern science has been watered down to cherry picking and biased by poor incomplete consciousness.
Thus the modern scientists are absolute hypocrites and preaching scientism by saying there are no absolutes .....
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Werner,
Banquo is a fictional character in a very old story - an abstraction. Don't take anything he says too seriously or literally. Yes, he is a hypocrite. He is morally bound to be because he took a hypocritical oath.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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So why do the deniers deny it?
It's really no skin off their teeth.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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The twenty-second session of the Conference of the Parties (COP 22) and the twelfth session of the Conference of the Parties serving as the meeting of the Parties to the Kyoto Protocol (CMP 12) will be held in Bab Ighli, Marrakech, Morocco from 7-18 November 2016.
On 5 October 2016, the threshold for entry into force of the Paris Agreement was achieved. The Paris Agreement entered into force on 4 November 2016. As a result, the first session of the Conference of the Parties serving as the meeting of the Parties to the Paris Agreement (CMA 1) will take place in Marrakech in conjunction with COP 22 and CMP 12.
BEIJING—China’s government said it would raise coal power capacity by as much as 20% by 2020, ensuring a continuing strong role for the commodity in the country’s energy sector despite a pledge to bring down pollution levels.
In a new five-year plan for electricity released Monday, the National Energy Administration said it would raise coal-fired power capacity from around 900 gigawatts last year to as high as 1,100 gigawatts by 2020. The roughly 200-gigawatt increase alone is more than the total power capacity of Canada.
By announcing a huge increase in coal power on the first day of this year's climate conference, China is sending the World a clear message.
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Kelly Morgan, Whitefish MT
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If people don't care about the 3.4 million people who die every year from air pollution caused by burning fossil fuels, why would they care about the effects of ACC?
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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whether or not humankind is to blame, unchangeable patterns have been established that may lead to dramatic consequences.
The next century may see electrical aquacars navigating the lakes of Miami.
But keep pedaling.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Check out Harold Wanless for a grim view of the future Florida underwater.
He is a respected scientist and a great guy.
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Jon Nelson
Boulder climber
Bellingham, WA
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It means I know how & why greenhouse gas molecules absorb the PHOTONS of infrared radiation, and release PHOTONS of infrared radiation.
Sure, the gases and particles absorb some IR, but that absorption does not determine what they emit
You don't have a clue.
Carbon Dioxide Absorbs and Re-emits Infrared Radiation
http://scied.ucar.edu/carbon-dioxide-absorbs-and-re-emits-infrared-radiation
Read this & educate yourself
http://butane.chem.uiuc.edu/pshapley/genchem1/l15/web-l15.pdf
Do you know what these images show? Do you know why there are discrete spikes?
Your uninformed opinions mean squat.
Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=AD0709894
The answer to the second two questions are yes, to a degree. Could be I understand radiation more than you. But I am not here to argue from authority or to list my qualifications. That's not how ideas are settled.
Anyway, I was making a point about the so-called greenhouse effect, not the physics of radiation. It is a widely misunderstood effect, and much larger than commonly thought.
Your errors were in the atmospheric science, not the radiation, as I explained. But they are common errors. I am sorry that I offended you by pointing that out. Peace.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Nov 15, 2016 - 12:56pm PT
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If anyone's interested, Chiloe was on my local NPR station (WEVO) this morning talking about a study that he's the lead on, regarding climate change acceptance and partisanship. I'd always guessed that he was involved in environmental sociology, and this is that sort of thing.
Nice job dude!
On the radio;
nhpr.org/post/unh-research-shows-political-leanings-can-affect-perceptions-climate-change
The whole enchilada;
http://soc.sagepub.com/content/50/5/913.full.pdf
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BobSFrankNose
Social climber
Seattle
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Nov 15, 2016 - 03:06pm PT
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Don't worry Jon Nelson, Malemut doesn't answer questions - he just keeps plugging away with his propaganda and current talking points.
No response from him from weeks ago regarding this below.
From November 4th, 2016
Malemut – your answer to several of my questions states that it is a biased and useless question. What parts? Are we, or are we not - as humans - responsible for the climate change? If we are, then how did we do it If we are not, then what can we do about it – realistically percentage wise. Your just parroting talking points.
You say: show me in Nature and Science. Nature and Science have been wrong before – and admitted it. In the late 80’s, Science published an article on psychiatric discriminates. It was peer reviewed and accepted. It was also published in the sister magazine in England – Nature. Turns out that most of the data – peer reviewed – was wrong and blatantly bogus. Companies developing patents around the new technology and data base lost hundreds of millions of dollars. They, of course, tried to sue, but Science just parroted: Peer reviewed, not our fault, peer reviewed, not our fault. Case closed.
Which brings up the publications of peer reviewed scientific articles. Isn’t that exactly what most of the Climate Gate 2009 email exposure was about – that of Michael Mann and Phil Jones (and dozens of others) regulating, overseeing, and controlling what was considered peer reviewed and acceptable? Seems that it was. And, regardless of how many you have personally read, cross-referenced, believe or support, or think were wrong or would ignore – thousands can’t all be wrong or made up or swept under a rug.
Take the time to read the whole story in whatever publication you believe – they all can’t be wrong. You have to admit –there was serious smoke that erupted in fire there and lead many to take a second look at the so called facts of the science and the publications - all peer reviewed!
So Malemut, I am taking the time to read basic stuff – and I get more enlightened about the possibility of overstating or exaggeration with everything I currently read – peer reviewed – of course.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Nov 15, 2016 - 03:17pm PT
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BobS,
it is unlikely anyone is going to waste their time attempting to explain basic accepted science to you. The information you should read has already been posted numerous times. Why didn't you read it then? After thousands of repeated attempts at reason, why would further repeats have a different effect this time?
Any remaining climate deniers in the world are generally so emotionally and religiously invested that they are immune to reason.
Anyone who brings up fake issues like "climategate" or a magazine from the 70s is hopelessly unscientific.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Nov 15, 2016 - 03:30pm PT
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Under Trump a lot less may be concerned, especially when he gets the govt stacked with flat Earth creationists
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