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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Oct 26, 2016 - 08:21am PT
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Actually - dozens if not a few hundred from the middle of the pack have free climbed El Cap - but Adam Ondra has not.
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RyanD
climber
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Oct 26, 2016 - 08:40am PT
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Not shocking that Ondra onsighted the emasculation of internet trad climbers everywhere on his first visit to the valley.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Oct 26, 2016 - 08:51am PT
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We went with my dad up on The Nose, wanting to free it in a day.
Big difference between "free in a day" and "onsight in a day". He might have been hoping for the onsight, but that's not specifically what he said he was ultimately after.
Not that many that can even do what he did, onsighting everything but the Great Roof and Changing Corners. I would think endurance for those big days on that many pitches would wear him down quite a bit.
Bravo!
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Oct 26, 2016 - 08:53am PT
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It is a rare thing to see any father/son team do a Big Wall. It just isn't that common. I'm glad the kid is doing it with his dad, before the father gets too old.
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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Oct 27, 2016 - 08:57pm PT
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Update: Ondra Is Back On the Dawn Wall
“Another day in the office. We hauled up and set up the portaledge on the Dawn Wall yesterday. I got to the top of pitch 16, and worked the moves of pitches 14, 15 and 16 ‘til late night. These are three of the hardest pitches on the whole climb, and on every pitch I missed one little piece of the puzzle. But with better skin and colder conditions (which are on the way), I will hopefully have these pitches super wired soon.
“Pitch 14 [5.14d] has this really mysterious last boulder problem—seemingly blank—but offers a few razorblade crimps that are just horrible. The previous boulder problems on this pitch felt very good. Pitch 15 [5.14d] has this really small razorblade that I did not want to pull, since in the warm conditions I would cut my skin open. The rest of the pitch felt good. Pitch 16 [5.14c] has this crazy dyno that definitely felt hard. I did not do the single move, but there is always an option to make the loop variation. The rest of the pitch is tricky and insecure but I found my way.
“For the next few days I think I will work on these three pitches if the weather allows.”
–BD Ambassador Adam Ondra, Oct. 27, 2016. #liveclimbrepeat Photo: Heinz Zak
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Oct 28, 2016 - 09:02am PT
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JLP and Tut, where did you guys learn to climb? Just idly curious about your context.
I've seen others refer to vertical (90degree) climbing as 'slab' but on the Dawn Wall where it overhangs substantially in sections, just doesn't seem to fit.
In any event, did I read the BD blog right, Ondra went back up with a sh#t forecast? big props
Once he starts firing other free climbs on El Cap (besides the 2 hardest? Nose and DW), he's going to crush the fuk out of it as a free climbing champ!!
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Oct 28, 2016 - 09:18am PT
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Update: Ondra Is Back On the Dawn Wall
“Another day in the office. We hauled up and set up the portaledge on the Dawn Wall yesterday. I got to the top of pitch 16, and worked the moves of pitches 14, 15 and 16 ‘til late night. These are three of the hardest pitches on the whole climb, and on every pitch I missed one little piece of the puzzle. But with better skin and colder conditions (which are on the way), I will hopefully have these pitches super wired soon.
“Pitch 14 [5.14d] has this really mysterious last boulder problem—seemingly blank—but offers a few razorblade crimps that are just horrible. The previous boulder problems on this pitch felt very good. Pitch 15 [5.14d] has this really small razorblade that I did not want to pull, since in the warm conditions I would cut my skin open. The rest of the pitch felt good. Pitch 16 [5.14c] has this crazy dyno that definitely felt hard. I did not do the single move, but there is always an option to make the loop variation. The rest of the pitch is tricky and insecure but I found my way.
“For the next few days I think I will work on these three pitches if the weather allows.”
–BD Ambassador Adam Ondra, Oct. 27, 2016. #liveclimbrepeat Photo: Heinz Zak
Imagine if he will be able to free the route after only a season of work? With no Yosemite experience prior. Imagine if he is able to do it in a day some day!? I know words are cheap and the action will reveal what happens over the next year or two or 10, but damn these kids are incredible!
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Texplorer
Trad climber
Sacramento
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Oct 28, 2016 - 09:31am PT
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Yes Vitali,
We are all waiting to see what he can do. Of course lots of this is like the 4 minute mile. While repeats are very impressive part of the difficulty is finding out if something is possible. Tommy and Kevin might have hit an insurmountable blank section and after years of work only had an "almost" free ascent. Notice how you don't hear much talk about the almost free of WFLT. So, while lets not discount his rapid progress, remember all the variations have been worked out, the grades are known, and there is even beta on two ways to do the crux pitch.
The other thing that I think about with all this is that as the grades go into the 5.13s even "trad" routes start to resemble the moves typical of a (ahem) sport slab route which I am sure Ondra is adept at. The typical Yosemite .10d is much harder than any .10d at a sport area and the climbing is much different in style but as you go up the grades there are only so many ways to make a crack harder. Speaking in generalities here.
In any case, would love to see Ondra humbled a little, do a Rocky montage, and then send. Would also be cool if he follows in the Huber bros steps and takes us to some places others haven't.
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jacramer
climber
Corvallis, OR
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Oct 28, 2016 - 10:04am PT
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Excellent point tut, but I would credit his power more to the origins and insertions of his finger/hand tendons, and less to the type or quantity of muscle fibers. Muscles are trainable, tendons not so much. Maybe a physio wants to chime in?
Let's also consider for a moment his previously mentioned ostrich neck. Just physics-wise I would speculate a long neck would be bad for climbing. Extending the weight of the head out away from the body could potentially throw off balance.
However, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say his neck isn't actually that long. Instead it's the extreme slope of his shoulders that makes his neck look so long. Could shoulders constructed this way somehow be stronger? He seems to use wild gastons and extreme cross-throughs all the time.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Oct 28, 2016 - 11:40am PT
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The other thing that I think about with all this is that as the grades go into the 5.13s even "trad" routes start to resemble the moves typical of a (ahem) sport slab route which I am sure Ondra is adept at. The typical Yosemite .10d is much harder than any .10d at a sport area and the climbing is much different in style but as you go up the grades there are only so many ways to make a crack harder. Speaking in generalities here.
Agree on the first part, but even though it is likely a personal problem, I find the sport routes to be harder compared to trad. Likely because I almost never sport climb. I sent my first 5.11a 5.11 5.11+ and a 5.12- on gear before I sent those grades on sport. All of us are different and my weakness is likely in pumpy overhanging stuff, feel much better on my feet (should try hiking a bit less!!! lol).
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Oct 28, 2016 - 11:57am PT
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The grades everywhere feel the same to me, gym included. Yeah - styles, rock type, etc, differ and there are always a few sandbags and way over graded gimmes - whatever.
If you take that 10d sport route - if you can even call something that easy "sport" - now climb it with 20 lbs of gear, 19 lbs of which you don't need, add in some gumby clod-hopper shoes and maybe a pack full of candy bars and water - now stop every 3 feet and pick your nose for 5 minutes to simulate your gear placing prowess...
Didn't realize Ondra wasn't going for the onsight on the Nose, guess I got misled by other posts here.
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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Oct 28, 2016 - 02:21pm PT
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Look out Yosemite: Vitaliy M. is coming!
I sent my first 5.11a 5.11 5.11+ and a 5.12- on gear before I sent those grades on sport. All of us are different and my weakness is likely in pumpy overhanging stuff, feel much better on my feet
Look out Yosemite: kingtut is coming!
my best red point was probably 12b at my best (cursed with no power). But I did hang dog Soap on a Rope once .
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Oct 28, 2016 - 03:38pm PT
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That is fairly average to redpoint low 5.12 in the modern world. I am sure you have done so, if not harder. Not sure why make such a post Alexey?
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Oct 28, 2016 - 03:51pm PT
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Damn, those are some seriously sloped shoulders! I'm thinking that has to be a factor although I can't imagine why. I just want to go on record is all.
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jacramer
climber
Corvallis, OR
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Oct 28, 2016 - 05:06pm PT
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high proportion of climbing ability is purely finger strength to weight ratio.
I completely agree.
However, I think you should reconsider your assertion that muscle fiber type would have a big effect on the strength of untrained fingers (like those of the young Sharma in your anecdote). Fast twitch people are not uncommon in the population, yet I've never noticed particularly strong fingers among the sprinter-looking dudes at the gym.
Your running analogy also breaks down, when you consider that many pro climbers are world class at both bouldering (power) and long sport routes (endurance). Some can even crush while simultaneously charging at cardio endurance sports—Ueli Steck climbs 5.14.
My suspicion instead is that untrained finger strength is more dependent on the unique structure of someone's fingers and hands. I think variation in the positioning of tendon attachment to finger bone would probably be the most important. As an engineer could tell us, small differences in the location of tendon attachment could dramatically effect leverage and the functional force a muscle contraction is able to produce.
It’s also possible that an ideal ratio between the lengths of different finger joints could produce more gripping power. Or maybe it’s short distal phalanges (finger tips) that enable some mutants to crank on microcrimps. I don’t know, but a biomechanical explanation for off-the-couch finger power seems the most likely to me.
Meanwhile, even in the marathon world some physiologists contend that it’s more than just muscle fiber type. A 2013 study suggested Kenyans’ disproportionate success in the sport might be due to unusually elastic calves.
Bottom line: I don’t buy the slow vs. fast twitch muscle fiber argument for untrained finger strength.
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RyanD
climber
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Oct 28, 2016 - 05:33pm PT
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Look out Yosemite: Vitaliy M. is coming!
I sent my first 5.11a 5.11 5.11+ and a 5.12- on gear before I sent those grades on sport. All of us are different and my weakness is likely in pumpy overhanging stuff, feel much better on my feet
Look out Yosemite: kingtut is coming!
my best red point was probably 12b at my best (cursed with no power). But I did hang dog Soap on a Rope once.
INTERNET CLIMBING CONTEST!!
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RyanD
climber
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Oct 28, 2016 - 05:35pm PT
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DAWNDRA WINZZZZ!!!
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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Oct 30, 2016 - 11:58am PT
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BMKvxU1B2bH/
Posted yesterday working the loop around the dyno
His effort on the nose was amazing and it will be very interesting to see what happens with the rest of his trip.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Belmont, California
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Oct 30, 2016 - 01:43pm PT
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Sounds like genetic determinism has finally triumphed in the popular mind. The big insurance companies will be glad about that.
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