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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 20, 2015 - 09:55pm PT
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Excellent outlook Peter Haan!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 20, 2015 - 09:59pm PT
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Climbing is for anarchists and loners who set their own personal standards without much regard to what others think.
There was a time when that was true, and it may still hold for some minute percentage of the demographic, but today? Hardly.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Mar 21, 2015 - 08:30am PT
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I remember a video in which Croft discusses soloing and remarks that if you do it, you should do it for yourself and not to impress others.
If I recall correctly, Peter actually said something like this:
"If you're going to solo, be darn sure you know why you're doing it, otherwise you might find it to be one bad joke."
Although I'm paraphrasing, I don't believe Croft said "don't solo to impress." It was more about being clear on why you are doing it.
Most folks realize what the consequences are when they solo. True, the young feel immortal (I know because I was once young, hard to believe as it is) and with that perspective, they tend to take more risks. But if you don't know the consequences of being over 40 feet up without a net, you're swimming in the shallow end of the pool.
I must say, I like the discussion, but I am with others on the way the topic is broached. For me, the question is better put like this, "Do you think Hondo will die from soloing?" We're not in Vegas, so why make it sound like we're taking odds.
PeterH, great words--let's not forget where Alex is in his life, and what he is doing with it. He is certainly one extreme fellow, and I sure wish I had half of his inspiration.
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Mar 21, 2015 - 09:22am PT
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i do not think honhold will ever die free soloing because on some sort of mystical level....i believe he is protected. i feel the same way about croft. both climbers respect their craft enough to be solid on their climbs. croft no longer solos at the extreme level that he used to, and eventually honhold will start backing off his rad solos and tone it down. i thought bachar was protected also, and it was epic to lose a hero of mine like that...but in the end, bachar did not respect his craft enough. he drank, he smoked, and had a beer gut, and was nowhere in the form that he did his hard solos when he fell and died. he should have toned it down and didn't.
i hope i'm right about alex, he's a great kid. ss
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Mar 21, 2015 - 11:32am PT
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I am reminded of the midnight steeple climbers of "oxbridge". Was it Oxford or Cambridge?
Students who snuck out their 2d/3d/4th floor windows at night, evading the watchful Warden, and climbed to the peak spires of the stone edifices.
Up stone corners aided by lead drainpipes. Along slate ridged rooftops. Up stone gothic spires under the scornful eye of the gargoyles.
A fall? Not that far. But then it's the landing that gets you. On stone courtyards. As far as I know, none died nor perhaps even fell any great distance.
The images from the article someone published are vivid in my mind.
Anyone have a link?
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SweetWilliam
Boulder climber
TheSand,Man
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Mar 21, 2015 - 01:20pm PT
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"George, Peter Croft is a great example of a climber who solos without allowing the media to exploit his talents."
Whut? Pictures of Croft soloing were all over the media. During his prime soloing years, the media was just the two climbing magazines. I was a little kid reading my dad's magazines and I still remeber those pictures. Zinger, Tips, Rostrum.
Where did you get the idea that Croft soloing wasn't in the media? Around the same time, I remember a Bachar shot soloing the Gift in Red Rock for a Boreal ad. I remember it well, because it made bachar look like an old man with a pony tail because his hair look completely gray, and me being clueless seven year old kid didn't know he was blonde and the pic was probably b&w.
Then Mr. Hann said "Frankly.......and if you want to know from someone that has been in the game for over fifty years, I"
Whut? Didn't you sort of stop climbing like 25 years ago? "in the game" , what does that even mean? Lee Sheftel is still "in the game", sending 5.13 in his 50s and 60s. One of my dad's old partners still solos 5.11 in his late 50s. That is "in the game". I'm not getting how you see yourself as "in the game".
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Mar 21, 2015 - 02:37pm PT
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I doubt it Alex will slip up on a solo.
I met met him and bouldered with him a little at the local gym one time. He was slipping and sliding and failing on V3 & V4 gym climbs. He falls as much as anyone when he's goofing about. He knows what he is doing.
The media loves freesolo vids because they are scary fun.
Valid thread. Calling him Hondo also helps cover the search engine tracks.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Mar 21, 2015 - 02:41pm PT
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The topic of free soloing and danger is one that has no clear edges, except beginning and end.
the very nature of it is no backup. Failure=death
It all comes down to the nature of failure, and how much control one has over that.
There is a continuum, wrt our bodies, which go through a process of loss, as time goes on beyond about 30, maybe younger. It isn't all strength, but involves balance, concentration and distractibility, range of motion, recovery from exertion, tolerance of heat, dehydration, tiredness, and many other factors not well understood.
There is the issue of objective danger: the rock coming off in your hand, the rock deciding to fall 100 feet above your head. How do you mitigate that?
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Mar 21, 2015 - 02:51pm PT
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yeah, objective danger. there are things beyond his control. all of you who think that he has everything under control are probably lousy poker players..
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Mar 21, 2015 - 02:59pm PT
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The dangers and possible scenarios flying 80mph daily down a freeway full of people texting....I think my life is more dangerous than his
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Mar 21, 2015 - 03:18pm PT
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^^^^
not valid. after an unfortunate incident on the highway, you have options and safety nets, such as airbags and seat belts. a soloist has none.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 21, 2015 - 03:23pm PT
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a soloist has none
The free soloist safety features you can't see with your naked eyes.
You people think too much without your soul and end up being robots .....
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Mar 21, 2015 - 03:30pm PT
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"you people"?
since when did I become one of the mainstream taconians?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Mar 21, 2015 - 03:32pm PT
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I'm gunna get totally honest here. You might think I'm talking above my pay grade..or getting weird.. heh
yeah, objective danger. there are things beyond his control. all of you who think that he has everything under control are probably lousy poker players..
This is the basic issue. No backup is the secondary big issue. One loose rock at the wrong moment is all it takes. That is true for all of us yet most of us have a backup or several.
Then there is time exposed..Alex gets to climb a vast amount of days a year.. enviably so, and he has done well creating a way to be able to do so. Yet time exposed to the risk .. well the problem is obvious.
Technique is an issue none have brought up. I have watched him solo a fair bit in real life. Fact is he tends to be a bit casual at times. A bit less disciplined about points of contact than he should be. In soloing there is still redundancy to be sought after. It does sacrifice the feeling of freedom and enjoyment to be disciplined about it.
Attitude. One HAS to have the very high confidence to do these things. However one can be overconfident based on unrealistic assumptions. This is a key to the engine for being prolific which increases the risk due to exposure and ironically it is a big key to being safe regarding the things you do have control over.
Fact is Alex is pushing it. He is not pushing it as much as some I have known. But it's still very far into realm of luck...or
..something Steve Schneider mentioned that I have had strong feelings about..protected.
I know the feeling.. not sure how much I rationally believe it.. but I sure remember operating in it, being pretty sure of it.. while trying not to rely on it.
Something like ..the place you love.. can care about you too.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Mar 21, 2015 - 04:22pm PT
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Werner is still painting by numbers...
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jstan
climber
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Mar 21, 2015 - 04:35pm PT
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Alex has abilities in many areas. So much so I think this climbing stuff is a waste of his time. If we all recognized this I think the present discussion would, rightfully, be seen as an absurdity.
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christoph benells
Trad climber
Tahoma, Ca
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Mar 21, 2015 - 04:41pm PT
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what if you get stung by a wasp?
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Mar 21, 2015 - 04:50pm PT
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I'm not about to condemn Alex for what he does. That's his choice and he does it better than anyone. Just trying to address the probability in all of this.
Long live Alex
I have been known to do a bit of soloing too, but I don't do it for a living, :)
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 21, 2015 - 05:16pm PT
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There is a huge difference between a soloist who does laps on stuff they have wired that is several full grades below their limits and someone who onsights near their limits. dude is cutting it way too close.
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