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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Oh, I can't do that. But, I highly suggest you take a month or so, get your passport up to par, buy yourself a ticket to Istanbul, get a taxi and then head Southwest for maybe 700 miles. Open the door, then go for a walk.
That just might be good for starters....
you could be right. It may change my opinions entirely. That is the beauty of life experiences and being open minded to new things.
Something religions of all types lack
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Walt Disney was a racist. Real talk.
cA.tim - Woodson on Sunday?
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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DMT
I let my feelings about social and foreign policy issues combined with religion cloud the fact that a theist could also be an economist. you win the point.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Learning Trad, Walt shook my hand, but I guess I didn't tell 'im I was Irish.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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just moved from San Diego to Sand Point, ID on new years. otherwise I would have loved to.
Back on topic I suppose
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Reilly, did you share a latte with him at the Willis Wall Starbucks?
Ca.tim, bummer.
Rest of you - LOL
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Psilocyborg
climber
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I don't see what ISIS is doing is much different from what we have done in the past. Using propoganda and war to get cheap bannanas, oil...whatever.
ISIS is twisting religious dogma to gain power and wealth. We have twisted democracy and patriotism to gain power and wealth.
HFCS I only read the first couple pages, but your hatred of religion is disturbing. You are falling into the same close minded trap as ISIS followers. The only difference is ideology, but your heart is in the same place. Except the murder part....for now :-)
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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That is scary. But I already knew that was happening. The youth yearn/need a cause that is "just and honorable".
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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haha ok Werner.
I am a young climber w/o your c*#k in his mouth. Why would you think your incoherent ramblings mean anything to me? You dont get Camp 4 points in this discussion friend.
Hey CA.Tim. Don't worry too much about Werner's jabs. He's all over the map, and when you call him out on his ramblings, he'll tell you that you take yourself too seriously. He confuses a life lived in C4 with real life experience. I don't take him seriously unless one of his posts starts as, "Yeah, back in the fukin day, me and Bachar/Kauk/Bridwell . . ."
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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A truly terrible event occurs, apparently intended to suppress the expression of alternate viewpoints; in discussion of that here, many of the comments are intended to undermine or suppress differing viewpoints!
What stops people from evaluating the logical consequences of different attitudes and beliefs, and instead get distracted by personal attacks? What causes people to connect their own well-being and sense of survival to the expression of an idea or a viewpoint or a judgment?This failure of logic, misperception of a personal injury, and a surrender to a base instinct to injure in response, is one of the weaknesses exploited by those who convince others to engage in violent atrocities.
I think at root is the primitive need to belong to a group, because alone we will die (think back to pre-civilization days). The fear of being judged is a signal to warn us against bring outcast from the group. Thus when we express an idea and someone publicly rejects the idea, we fear that *we* and not just the idea are going to be outcast. This creates a fear of death and triggers a fight-or-fight response and rational thought is subordinated to primal responses. The nature of those responses depend heavily on our early childhood. If we are raised in violence and aggression, these actions are automated responses with few opportunities for introspection or logical control.
So I think the roots of the issue here are multi-fold:
1. How to promote emotional self-awareness in a population that mostly doesn't learn it from their parents?
2. How to reduce the violence in which children are raised? This is a long long process over many generations, because it is in the hands of the parents, and by the time they learn (if ever) the violence is already passed to the children. Each generation (if they are lucky) are raised with a little better guidelines than their parents had, and this is all subject to the living circumstances and realities they face. Starving in a refugee camp and fighting for food is not a breeding ground for a "love is the answer" ethic. That is a luxury of those with comfortable environments.
3. How to reduce the injustices in the world that lead to a sense of righteous anger and indignation?
It is easy to state platitudes like "war is not the answer" and "love is the answer", which on the whole I believe in. But people adapt to their environment, and in turn shape their environment. So lasting change requires some disruption- how do you make an environment amenable to developing people with a peaceful accommodating tolerant mindset? Everyone's basic needs need to be met, and fear can't be a part of daily existence. But this is very difficult given the starting circumstances and people.
How can we change the existing environment? Perhaps the most practical way is to promote governments that best enable the population to meet their basic need a first (food/shelter/clothing) and medical treatments and freedom from violence. This gets tricky when you expand the definition of violence beyond imminent risk of death or physical trauma to denial of education or denial of personal expression.
And changing people? How to promote a global code of conduct that becomes a mandatory part of government-sponsored education because we can't rely on individual families to provide it? Developing this common code for basic emotional education would itself trigger a global war :). thinking smaller- how to get emotional education and self awareness/expression as a part of our school curriculum? Surely the world would benefit more from high-schoolers who understand their emotional triggers and sources of those triggers and how to overcome them, rather than everyone knowing trigonometry or algebra II. I'd say this level of emotional education beginning in Kindergarten should be mandatory everywhere. The challenge is to define the curriculum in such a way that the majority of families would not have deep fundamental conflict with the principles. There are already bits of this in localized programs, but it should be universal.
I feel like I've barely scratched the surface and haven't said much of consequence, so going to cut it short here.
Parting thoughts: the march toward peaceful coexistence will always be encouraged through deeper mutual understanding and deeper self-awareness. The values of a group or an individual are not inalienable rights. The limits of a group's or individual's rights should be subordinated to the rights of other groups and individuals to not have their freedoms compromised.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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It is easy to state platitudes like "war is not the answer" and "love is the answer", which on the whole I believe in. But people adapt to their environment, and in turn shape their environment. So lasting change requires some disruption- how do you make an environment amenable to developing people with a peaceful accommodating tolerant mindset? Everyone's basic needs need to be met, and fear can't be a part of daily existence.
First you'll need a new planet. :) But a nice thought anyway.
What "we" (meaning those of us able to waste time on the Internet and not living in poverty/war/disease) can do is try to understand those that govern us will often use such tribal tendencies and economic disparities to drive their agendas that run counter to those of reasonable men.
For example, some planes are flown into buildings and kill ~3000 people. Even if the official story (which reeks of propaganda) were true, that does not justify the genocide we have directly commited in Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya/Syria over the past 12+ years.
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John M
climber
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Ah! It's our fault now. And the attack on 9/11 was an inside job (you got one of them stickers on the tailgate of your Prius?) all so we American capitalistic pigs could go over and murder em all.
He didn't say any of that Chief. You don't have to take it to the other extreme..
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Chief I bet you're a riot in person.....
I'll pick you up in my Tacoma (sorry no bumperstickers) and we'll go shoot some holes through steel at 200 yards.
Hillary would not approve of me at all... And that's a good thing!
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crankster
Trad climber
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Oh man, I though the lunatic fringer, Cheef, had been banished to the climate thread with Ron. Nothing like a tragedy to bring out the wingnut haters.
Blaming Hillary, Obama. et al is beyond dumb.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Noun[edit]
sarcasm (countable and uncountable, plural sarcasms)
(uncountable) A sharp form of humor, intended to hurt, that is marked by mocking with irony, sometimes conveyed in speech with vocal over-emphasis. Insincerely saying something which is the opposite of one's intended meaning, often to emphasize how unbelievable or unlikely it sounds if taken literally, thereby illustrating the obvious nature of one's intended meaning. [quotations ▼]
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.
mostly muddles the point
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crankster
Trad climber
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Oh sorry, Extremist Cheef, I must have misinterpreted the photo of Hillary that you included to mean that you associated her with this crime. Just because you are posting photos of jihadist and Hillary, how could I assume that?
I'm sure you'll feel safer with Christie in office.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Will Charlie Hebdo continue publication? If so, will the content be altered?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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At least Christie has his MOJO working..
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crankster
Trad climber
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Semantics is important to far- right extremists like Cheef...the new Ron!
Dean's intent is clear to reasonable and sane people.
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chacha
Mountain climber
Fontainebleau, FRANCE
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Hi CA Timothy,
Yes Charlie Hebdo wants to continue publication. Even if it's very difficult... The next Charlie Hebdo newspaper will be sold next week on the 14th of January. The money will be given to the families of the victims.
Free speech must continue in France.
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