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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Aurora Colorado
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Nov 23, 2014 - 12:04pm PT
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Soloing 5.12 or sport climbing 5.14 seems impossible to me, but within the abilities of other people. Alex Honnold appears to be solid and in control of what he's doing. Compare this with some of the Mt Everest videos, where the guided clients have no climbing experience at all and can't get down by themselves. Or the dozens of people who died on Thorong La pass in Nepal. That's a trekking route, they were all led into deep snow and got stuck in it, instead of just waiting out the storm in the guesthouse.
Or if you want something really scary, look at some beginner climbing videos about people's first leads at the Gunks. There's one where the leader blindly stuffs a cam into a roof crack, and somehow winds the rope around his leg as he climbs through and the cam rotates up.
I'd compare soloing to olympic figure skating, total concentration and perfection of movement. Climbing Mt Everest with Beck Weathers (star of several Mt Everest disaster videos) would be more like texting and driving.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 23, 2014 - 03:50pm PT
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Yanqui: . . . that Clif Bar's decision will have absolutely no statistically measurable effect on the number of deaths from free soloing in North America.
Pardon me . . . I must be immensely naive, but, WHY does this matter?
Do you understand how business works? If you think it’s all about revenues and costs, then you may need some experience in working in business.
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Nov 24, 2014 - 07:53am PT
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^^^^^^^
I do believe I've been called out: feigned politness with "Pardon me", rhetorical use of "I must be immensely naive" (because I really don't think you believe that about yourself), expressive use of caps implying that what I wrote doesn't matter (which is likely true) and then a passive-aggressive implication that I'm somehow lacking in both understanding and experience. That's a whole lot of going right at me for such a short post. I must have touched a nerve!
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 29, 2014 - 10:03am PT
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I heard the NPR story this morning. Was interesting, they seemed to imply that more sponsors may be backing away from "high risk" sports. I really wish one of the ex-Clif guys would spill the beans about how much compensation they got, but I would imagine there is a non-disclosure provision in their contract.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 29, 2014 - 10:21am PT
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I've also wondered about the problem being exposed by the termination: a lashback by members of the respective sports.
If you figure that touching these athletes results in a contract that cannot easily be terminated, then why would you ever do it?
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Nov 29, 2014 - 10:32am PT
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All those people whining about the taste of Clif bars must never have suffered the fracking-fluid aftertaste of Red Bull.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Nov 29, 2014 - 11:40am PT
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to what degree is he deluding himself as we all do, more or less?
I doubt there is too much delusion going on. The state of mind required to do what Alex does leaves no room for delusion. If there is delusion, it may just be in seeing what future pathways it may open up. That's the part where there cannot be much calculation because it's about going into the unknown. Each previously unknown level must become familiar before another presents itself.
If getting dropped by Clif Bar is the worst thing that happens to this group, more power to them!
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Nov 29, 2014 - 12:07pm PT
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Safety or "safe" should never be used in reference to adventure sports because the potential for death is always there.
I don't get this at all, safety being an integral component of risk calculation. Without it we are lemmings.
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It's never all or nothing, as the above suggests. The illusion that one can never get hurt climbing if the system is properly set has proven to be a mother's lament on many occasions. Risk management in climbing is a matter or going with the higher odds given the immediate situation. But those odds (or injury) will never be zero, ergo climbing will never be "safe." Strive for security, of course. But if the elimination of risk is your desire, climbing is probably not right for you.
JL
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Nov 29, 2014 - 12:32pm PT
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Extreme skiers can be a prime example
Extreme skiers are NOT a good example! Those people are crazy! Besides, you can't ski the same route twice.
I hear you on intuition too. Unfortunately ( or fortunately! ), we are fairly trapped as being just spectators.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Nov 29, 2014 - 01:10pm PT
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Like Largo said, you are not going to eliminate risk. That's why we love and hate this whole thing. Would be a pretty bland world without the risk and reward. We are all one, so as long as it's Alex doing the soloing, I don't need to.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 29, 2014 - 03:20pm PT
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We are focusing in this discussion on risk to CLIMBERS, but that is not actually the risk involved----which is risk to a COMPANY.
marketing is a realm unto itself...with calculations the same.
Virtually always, the arithmetic is how much can you sell, for how much you spend.
Add in factors for good press and bad press because of your spending.
....good and bad for the actions of your representatives.
What might have been good in one time frame, may be terrible in another time frame.....or political climate.....or climate. Who knows.
But people get paid to make this exact sort of calculation.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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May 19, 2015 - 08:01am PT
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Umm .. Well .. Hmm .. :-(
Be careful people we love you.
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couchmaster
climber
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May 19, 2015 - 08:08am PT
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My son just gave me that very rope 2 days ago with a speach about how much he loves me blah blah. 9.8 x 70M Maxim glider bi-color dry rope. (but it's marked 9.9 on the rope, not 9.8 hmmm) Until I get it out it's the prettiest rope I own. Not only that, but I learned here that I'M NOW POLITICALLY CORRECT BIZCHES! WOOT!
"A portion of proceeds will go to the Alex Honnold Foundation, which seeks simple, sustainable ways to improve lives worldwide"
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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May 19, 2015 - 08:08am PT
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Hmmm what? Potter went out with honor. He rolled the dice a lot of times, eventually everyone gets snake eyes.
Clif bar are still dooshes, moreso than ever IMO
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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May 19, 2015 - 09:39am PT
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It's not about him Patrick, it's about us and and where and why and what we train our brains to glorify. For me, I need to not train my brain to glorify the inevitability of rolling snake eyes - my kids still need me. I can use all the help Clif bar can give me doing that. But that's cool for those who choose otherwise. Please just keep it in mind - we'll miss you :-(
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yosguns
climber
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Mar 15, 2016 - 08:08pm PT
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Clif is sponsoring a Sunday pool party at Coachella. When I saw this, it made sense to me that they pulled the sponsorships they did in 2014. They're appealing to a much larger, less elite portion of the population. I wonder what the first Clif ad on major network primetime TV will look like. Has there been one already? Maybe it'll be like that Citibank commercial with Honnold in it. Oh wait...
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