Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
dirtbag
climber
|
|
Tgt you are a fooking idiot. Really, truly a fooking idiot,
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
These guntard dipshits know goddam well that the idea of an 8 y/o with an Uzi is just not ok. Instead of acknowledging this simple, obvious fact, and suggesting some kind of realistic solution (any kind of solution), they throw up diversion after diversion with false equivalency arguments.
You guys like to think you are principled in your thinking, but you're not. You stand by your dogma with no sense of reality whatsoever.
Feckin' useless ST Republi-tards, the lot of you. Why do you hate America & Americans?
|
|
Mike Friedrichs
Sport climber
City of Salt
|
|
Wrong again Ron. Guns now kill more people in Utah than MV crashes.
I've been the first responder on two motorcycle accidents, one where the person was wearing a helmet and one where he was not. If you think it only affects the person in the accident, you should try (with no first aid experience, or training) holding an accident victim's head while they bleed, wondering if they will ever speak, or live again. I couldn't sleep for weeks, and when I did I had nightmares. If you live on a desert island, do what you want. Otherwise, your decisions will affect other people.
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
one where the person was wearing a helmet and one where he was not I suppose like gun laws, Utah has very lax helmet laws. If any.
Riding any motorcycle without a helmet, anywhere, is about as smart as giving a child a loaded Uzi.
Too bad that common sense (really not so common) has gotten a bad name with so many Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death whackos.
Death it is then to many of them.
At least Utaaahhr requires helmets for motorcycle riders 17 and younger.
I can see it now, Dad on his Harley with Mom riding pillion, neither with helmets and Junior riding alongside with his helmet. Who's setting the example?
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/06/state-by-state-guide-to-motorcycle-helmet-laws/index.htm
Or New Hampshire, the Live Free or Die state. No helmet law. Should change their motto to Live Free And Die.
|
|
TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
|
|
Cars kill more,, we should outlaw them,
No, cars kill fewer people than guns, we established that last week with The Chief's figures. Motor vehicles as a whole kill slightly more people than guns each year.
If you want to exclude suicides by gun (which is reasonable), then you also need to exclude any vehicle death where the deceased was the negligent driver. More than half of all road deaths are single vehicle accidents, and of the remaining multi-vehicle fatalities, let's very conservatively assume a 50% survival rate for the responsible driver. That brings the number of deaths caused by someone else with a gun to far above the number caused by someone else with a car.
TE
|
|
TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
|
|
No seatbelts required in NH either I believe.
Should change their motto to Live Free And Be an Organ Donor.
TE
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
"There is your no-holds-barred 2nd Amendment gun nut fear, right there."
Pretty much. Their position is not based on rational resistance due to principle...they know goddam well that 8 y/o's with Uzis is not ok. (Most of them would never allow their 8 y/o to use an Uzi, under any circumstance.)
Their resistance is nothing more than irrational fear, with no regard to who might get killed or hurt along the way.
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
Being shot to death will finally be less likely than dying in a car accident?
Oh joy to us! We are such a blessed nation! To have a 1:1 ratio of violent weapon deaths to auto accident deaths!
What a coup!
Fooooour scoooooore, and seven yeeeeeeaaaaars agoooo.......
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
This is not about MVA's, or buckets of water, or helmet laws, or anything else except whether it's appropriate for an 8 y/o to be shooting an Uzi.
Everything else is just a distraction.
|
|
Byran
climber
San Jose, CA
|
|
That's a pretty remarkable downturn in automobile fatalities. Especially considering that in the last 35 years our country's population has increased by 40%. That's the kind of statistic that almost gives one hope for the future, lol.
This is not about MVA's, or buckets of water, or helmet laws, or anything else except whether it's appropriate for an 8 y/o to be shooting an Uzi.
Everything else is just a distraction.
I'd actually say the real issue with US gun violence is a problem of poverty, gangs, crime ridden neighborhoods, with lots of people who can barely make rent, no jobs, no money for public schools, where drug abuse is criminalized instead of treated, and where every corner has a payday loan center, liquor store, and gun shop.
Rare accidents at shooting ranges, killing sprees at upper-middle-class schools, and redneck militiamen with an arsenal in their basement are the distraction.
Idiotic business practices like putting an uzi into the hands of an 8yro with no shooting experience should hopefully go away through proper litigation and without the need for more legislation.
|
|
TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
|
|
whether it's appropriate for an 8 y/o to be shooting an Uzi.
No, it's about whether it's appropriate to be standing anywhere near an 8 y/o shooting an Uzi. One redeeming feature about gun safety is how exceeding difficult it is to accidentally kill yourself with one. That kid was never in danger of being killed, unless some friend was in a neighboring stall.
TE
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
One redeeming feature about gun safety is how exceeding difficult it is to accidentally kill yourself with one.
Should one of us start digging up links of people shooting themselves?
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
There's already one disturbing video of an 8 y/o from 2009 shooting himself in the head with an out-of-control Uzi.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
You people with the "just not appropriate" argument would crack me up if you didn't sound eerily familiar to to the bigots I have heard all my life.
Putting a fully loaded Uzi into her hands before working with single, double, triple loads etc. was stupid and, as was already pointed out, will likely see litigation that results in other range operators likely to reassess and re-evaluate.
New laws are the last thing we need (unless it allows stupid people to be shot,...)
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
Now the question of 8 y/o's and Uzis is being equated with bigotry?
You GunNutz® just have no rational, direct response to this, do you? Just diversion & distraction via false equivalencies.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
You GunNutz® just have no rational, direct response to this, do you?
I guess that I shouldn't respond to this, as I'm not a GunNutz®.
My response is: The incident is tragic. This sort of thing is rare. Laws cannot control or reduce human stupidity to a threshold lower than the present incidence of this sort of stupidity. So, we all bemoan it. But that does not motivate new laws to "correct" the situation.
On a different point, I'm no lawyer, but if I were the widow I would be talking to one. Workman's Comp does not end the right to sue in the case of gross negligence. Yes, the instructor contributed to his own death. But both the range and the parents are complicit.
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
We prolly have some level of agreement on this, madbolter. And I give you credit for at least being direct to the issue, and going beyond the false equivalency arguments.
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
More distractions & diversions.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!